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Author Topic: Still from ROV video  (Read 1302643 times)

JNev

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #510 on: January 28, 2012, 10:11:17 PM »

Hard to say.  I see the 'bolthole' - but in full context I see encrustations that resemble normal sea life stuff too - some of it similar to stuff lying about near the same spot, although in less concentration.  I also see the end of the 'pin' and realize that it is oddly concentrically round, but I'm still a long way from being able to jump at it being a 'pin' of some sort without more to go on.

The shape of that 'wing root' is interesting - but in scale that would have to be a fairly massive rope or cable lying near / over it, with a fairly massive swage or bead on the rope or cable. 

By the way, just a thought, but maybe we should call that rope-thing a 'line' until we know more about what it is.  To me it sharply resembles a piece of boat tackle - complete with and end loop whose shape at the end suggests 'memory' (bending) from being loaded against a cleat for a long time, a 'splice' up-line from the loop with that ball swage - which looks like a black plastic 'bead' threaded onto the line...  I've knitted a hundred loops like that into marine lines over the years to snag over a cleat - and they tend to take a 'set' just like I see in the end of that one after being loaded.  Some people toss old ones overboard after the line gets in bad shape...

One thing that sticks out about all the 'rubble' lying around to me - the area seems clearly disturbed by something: whether 75 years ago or a week before the ROV got there is hard to say, and I'm sure there's plenty of natural rock-fall to do that in the active surf around the reef.  But that and the prospective man-made stuff is very interesting for sure, I agree.

Round holes and 'pins' can be a treacherous prospect though - lots of sea critters create amazing shapes too - round 'bore' holes are not uncommon.  Can't say so much about the round 'end' on the 'pin' - maybe - but it sure suggests man-made.  I love the way you fellas capture these images - it does allow a close look at the details.

LTM -
- Jeff Neville

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #511 on: January 29, 2012, 07:34:48 AM »

Stll with the long shot. If it is the remains of the side of the fuselage, fuselage floor and wing root/rib/spar then, the black arrow should be pointing in the general direction of where you would expect to find the remains of a wing? First image. Does that sound logical?
In the second image I have marked the outline in red and, the yellow lines point to torn edge and rivets/holes?
Third image shows 'wing tip'? without annotations.
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #512 on: January 29, 2012, 08:07:13 AM »

Jeff.  If you believe that the picture "wingtip1" shows a wingtip from the Electra then using the wingtip you have outlined for scale, what do you believe is the diameter of the cable in the bottom of the image?
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #513 on: January 29, 2012, 08:25:50 AM »

Irv,

good point ref scale! Some of these objects have been named after some hefty peices of kit.

Jeff,

what do you make of this that I have a black arrow pointing to?

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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #514 on: January 29, 2012, 08:59:18 AM »

Chris. Using the cable as scale then that could be a washer or cable guide or support. 

Re: scale. In the ROV video you see the ROV's prop wash blowing sediment away. This sediment moves very quickly. Remember that this ROV isn't very big. This means it's props are small but fast. The movement of the sediment, and the amount, should help with scale determination.  When you see the sediment moving quickly from small props then you are dealing with inches and not feet in the frame of the video.   IMHO 
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #515 on: January 29, 2012, 09:11:04 AM »

There is a moment in the film where the ROV passes close to the 'wire' and next to it is a mollusce shell which didn't look like a man grabbing clam shell, more of a small BiValve which gives a good indication of scale IMO
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #516 on: January 29, 2012, 09:21:44 AM »

Chris, an excellent observation.  Scale has to be determined before we can go off claiming huge pieces of aircraft have been found. While I think Richie and Jeff H are to be commended for their investigative endeavors I think we need to "scale" back until scale can be determined to put everything observed into perspective.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #517 on: January 29, 2012, 11:01:56 AM »

Jeff.  If you believe that the picture "wingtip1" shows a wingtip from the Electra then using the wingtip you have outlined for scale, what do you believe is the diameter of the cable in the bottom of the image?
Yes scale is a real issue down there but, I have noticed and probably you have too that the cable/rope/wire that you mention in this clip looks to be a different size to that at the start of the video. The bit at the start looks more straighter, thinner and wire looking. The bit in this still looks chunkier and ropish (is ropish a word?) and isn't straight. Do we have different types of cable/rope/wire in the ROV footage?
I could work out the scale given the spec for the lens on the ROV and, the focal settings of the lens at any given time of focussing in on an object. That would  then give me the distance from said target.
And wingtip1 is named so I can find the picture again on my PC's without wasting time searching through files entitled a/cd9000256 etc..., it does resemble a wingtip though.
Jeff
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« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 11:09:14 AM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #518 on: January 29, 2012, 11:16:27 AM »

Irv,

good point ref scale! Some of these objects have been named after some hefty peices of kit.

Jeff,

what do you make of this that I have a black arrow pointing to?
Yes Chris, there's a lot of metalwork in this area bearing in mind this is the area where the black arrow in the remains of fuselage side, floor, wing root/rib picture hints as to which direction is the most likely place to find wing wreckage. I'll be coming back to the area where you have added your arrow later because I think we are missing the bigger picture there, can't see the wood for the trees syndrome.
Jeff
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #519 on: January 29, 2012, 11:54:29 AM »

Jeff. Where did you find ROV lens specs?  If you know the lens specs then for sure this aids in determining scale.  More sophisticated ROV's send back the camera metadata to be recorded as part of the video.  I don't think this ROV had this ability. But can't TIGHAR query the ROV operator for more info on all this?  The operator should know more about the video and ROV capabilities than anyone else. That's not to say the know what everything they see is but analysis of video taken by his unit would be helpful. Does anyone know what company made the video?
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #520 on: January 29, 2012, 12:16:49 PM »

Jeff. Where did you find ROV lens specs?  If you know the lens specs then for sure this aids in determining scale.  More sophisticated ROV's send back the camera metadata to be recorded as part of the video.  I don't think this ROV had this ability. But can't TIGHAR query the ROV operator for more info on all this?  The operator should know more about the video and ROV capabilities than anyone else. That's not to say the know what everything they see is but analysis of video taken by his unit would be helpful. Does anyone know what company made the video?

No, I don't have the ROV lens spec Irv but, given that, it would help in tyring to get some sort of scale down there :)
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #521 on: January 29, 2012, 12:27:02 PM »

Another point to take into consideration. Over the weeks myself, Richie and all the others have been scrutinising this footage and yet, we haven't found any signs of this wreckage being warlike in any way. Despite keeping a close lookout for signs of ordnance, machineguns, ammo belts,ammo belt clips, turrets etc... nothing, yet.
Which does help to eliminate, so far, a lot of the likely suspects from the Pacific theatre of war. However, that still leaves military recon'/rescue/transport and of course, civilian. It's not much but, every little helps in narrowing down the search and, eliminating suspects :)
Jeff
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #522 on: January 29, 2012, 12:31:48 PM »

Hasn't Ric already identified WW2 aircraft losses in and around the Phoenix group which show that there have been no military losses at Gardner/Niku.  Also the natives would have been aware of any WW2 military crashes as well as the PISS officers and LORAN coasties (but its worth wearing belts and braces as they say)
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #523 on: January 29, 2012, 01:14:45 PM »

just some stills i have marked out areas to look at  :)
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #524 on: January 29, 2012, 01:20:47 PM »

Hasn't Ric already identified WW2 aircraft losses in and around the Phoenix group which show that there have been no military losses at Gardner/Niku.  Also the natives would have been aware of any WW2 military crashes as well as the PISS officers and LORAN coasties (but its worth wearing belts and braces as they say)

Yes, good point Chris, Ric has a list on the site of all recorded aircraft losses but, like you say belts and braces, someone might have gone down without telling us  :)

Jeff
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