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Author Topic: Still from ROV video  (Read 1072531 times)

John Joseph Barrett

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #495 on: January 28, 2012, 07:53:24 AM »

Jeff/Richie, in your efforts thus far to stitch stills together, have you noticed any relationship or alignment with what you've seen as to location of pieces and parts aligning with where they would be expected to be if this is an aircraft? For example, does Jeff's posting of the possibility of a part of the floor/door/and side of fuselage run in the general direction of Richie's pilot's window/engine still, and what is the distance between them? I'm thinking that aside from the main spar and cockpit area, the next most rugged and durable area would have to be the cargo floor of the plane. It was built to either hold cargo or seats for passengers and would have to be of sturdier construction than the overhead. IF the plane went over the edge and was banged up by the surf on its way down and then settled into a groove or somewhat protected area along the reef, I could see where the wings, tail, and upper surfaces of the fuselage could be beaten and torn off by the surge, allowing them to be tossed ashore over time while still leaving a possibly substantial portion relatively intact on the bottom. It is curious how many metal bits there seem to be and, yes, I am fascinated by the ghostly image of the engine/propellor and possible cockpit window that Richie has posted. As far as possible recovery. I do think that it would be possible with minimal disturbance of the reef environment. Most of what I have seen is rubble and sediment which would settle back without issue. Any fuel aboard is long gone. There may be oil in the engine(s) but even that may have escaped over the years. If it is what it may be I think the recovery would be worth the time and effort to all involved. LTM-  John
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #496 on: January 28, 2012, 08:41:55 AM »

Jeff/Richie, in your efforts thus far to stitch stills together, have you noticed any relationship or alignment with what you've seen as to location of pieces and parts aligning with where they would be expected to be if this is an aircraft? For example, does Jeff's posting of the possibility of a part of the floor/door/and side of fuselage run in the general direction of Richie's pilot's window/engine still, and what is the distance between them? I'm thinking that aside from the main spar and cockpit area, the next most rugged and durable area would have to be the cargo floor of the plane. It was built to either hold cargo or seats for passengers and would have to be of sturdier construction than the overhead. IF the plane went over the edge and was banged up by the surf on its way down and then settled into a groove or somewhat protected area along the reef, I could see where the wings, tail, and upper surfaces of the fuselage could be beaten and torn off by the surge, allowing them to be tossed ashore over time while still leaving a possibly substantial portion relatively intact on the bottom. It is curious how many metal bits there seem to be and, yes, I am fascinated by the ghostly image of the engine/propellor and possible cockpit window that Richie has posted. As far as possible recovery. I do think that it would be possible with minimal disturbance of the reef environment. Most of what I have seen is rubble and sediment which would settle back without issue. Any fuel aboard is long gone. There may be oil in the engine(s) but even that may have escaped over the years. If it is what it may be I think the recovery would be worth the time and effort to all involved. LTM-  John

Some very good point s raised John. I am trying to use the line of the rope/cable/wire as a reference point for what we might be seeing here but, and it's a big but, the wreckage does have the characteristics of not being a relatively straightforward ditching into the sea (where the structure would still be together, even if severely damaged)and sinking. It has the characteristics of being torn apart over time and then being washed down the reef face, which makes putting it back together a nightmare.
I would suggest that when it is confirmed as aircraft wreckage (I have no doubts) a new thread is started trying to identify what plane it is. It could be done using the footage but it's a big ask. What would be needed is PLENTY of pictures of Electra airframe, parts, components etc...
Not saying it IS an Electra but, it's a good place to start. We can always eliminate it being an Electra by this method anyway. Won't be easy but, will be cheap.
Note: ALL aeroplanes have wings so something like that is of no use. It would have to be a wing construction unique to an Electra. Markings would be useful to, if they survive after all these years, Lockheed/ pratt and whitney logos, numbers etc... Even counting rivet holes and their symmetry would help.
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 08:45:53 AM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #497 on: January 28, 2012, 09:38:35 AM »

first picture is of what i believe to be electra but thats just my opinion  :)

however notice the circular object any ideas on what it could be ?

in second image notice the bar wid cotter pin going thru it like its holding the circular object in place

 

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« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 09:41:12 AM by richie conroy »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #498 on: January 28, 2012, 09:47:26 AM »

Here's another area you might want to have a look at Richie. I have no idea what this lot of junk is.
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #499 on: January 28, 2012, 10:02:53 AM »

pic 1 remember jeff's item wid sqiggles well look to right of it were i have highlighted

pic 2 is of more items were jeff pointed out in earlier 
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #500 on: January 28, 2012, 10:15:37 AM »

notice all the objects i have pointed out 
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #501 on: January 28, 2012, 10:44:00 AM »

any idea's what these could be will try to enhance photo asap

top arrow is pointed at what looks like a metal bar that L shaped which has a bracket holding it to sumthink

the arrow pointing down is to what appears to be sum kind of wheel posible a steering wheel 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #502 on: January 28, 2012, 12:51:51 PM »

any idea's what these could be will try to enhance photo asap

top arrow is pointed at what looks like a metal bar that L shaped which has a bracket holding it to sumthink

the arrow pointing down is to what appears to be sum kind of wheel posible a steering wheel

The possible steering wheel Richie was the object I considered earlier in the thread to be the possible rearwheel assy. Couldn't get better image so left it alone. See the bit inbetween the black lines. Shows up a bit better if you hit invert.
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 12:56:13 PM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #503 on: January 28, 2012, 01:03:18 PM »

wat cud this be
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #504 on: January 28, 2012, 01:10:07 PM »

wat cud this be

Looks like a tensioner for strap/harness/seatbelt

Rotate it around and you will see the light bit looks to be designed for something flat and flexible to go through it IMHO
Jeff
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JNev

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #505 on: January 28, 2012, 04:38:08 PM »

I don't think tensioners of the type I believe is being suggested (reel type) were common in AE's time or through WWII. 

The typical belts in use in AE's time were a 'cam lock' type - the seat belt locking lever didn't mechanically 'click' into anything - instead it simply clamped down by cam action through a set of serrations on the metal against the heavy fabric in the belt.  That was how they were tensioned and 'latched'.  The harder one pulled, the more secure the 'latching action' became.

That actually became a problem and those types were made illegal as a type when FAA made a retroactive change in the rule.  There had been too many instances of people not being able to release them when under tension, as in hanging upside down with body weight tugging against the belt, the cam could become incredibly tightly cinched and too hard to release.  But they were common for decades.

The Electra also did not have shoulder harnesses as a norm, and I don't know of an exception for NR16020 in that regard.  Perhaps there are some pictures of this stuff that will help, however.

If that intriguing round shape really is a 'pin', it could relate to many possible items common to the Electra or other craft - a gear component or something similar. 

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #506 on: January 28, 2012, 05:25:47 PM »

I don't think tensioners of the type I believe is being suggested (reel type) were common in AE's time or through WWII. 

The typical belts in use in AE's time were a 'cam lock' type - the seat belt locking lever didn't mechanically 'click' into anything - instead it simply clamped down by cam action through a set of serrations on the metal against the heavy fabric in the belt.  That was how they were tensioned and 'latched'.  The harder one pulled, the more secure the 'latching action' became.

That actually became a problem and those types were made illegal as a type when FAA made a retroactive change in the rule.  There had been too many instances of people not being able to release them when under tension, as in hanging upside down with body weight tugging against the belt, the cam could become incredibly tightly cinched and too hard to release.  But they were common for decades.

The Electra also did not have shoulder harnesses as a norm, and I don't know of an exception for NR16020 in that regard.  Perhaps there are some pictures of this stuff that will help, however.

If that intriguing round shape really is a 'pin', it could relate to many possible items common to the Electra or other craft - a gear component or something similar. 

LTM -

I think you're right Jeff. The more I look at that whole 'coral' outcrop that it's sitting on the more suspicious it becomes. I think that the assembly Richie has highlighted is 2 parts. One part is dark, the bit to the left and, one part is light, the bit to the right. Now, are these two parts on different chunks of metal? the lighter one does seem to be on a slightly raised up 'coral' outcrop. Also where Richie has put bolthole (would be a thin bolt) how about fiiting a spring in there? That way we have a fairly simple latch assembly to keep something closed?
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #507 on: January 28, 2012, 05:32:54 PM »

Also the white part seems to be able to move because it has 2 semi circular bits of metal allowing it to swivel up and down.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #508 on: January 28, 2012, 08:01:01 PM »

In fact that white bit Richie looks and acts like a handle...?
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #509 on: January 28, 2012, 08:43:33 PM »

Another long shot but, if I'm correct and the red arrow points to the remains of a side of the fuselage then I'm hoping that the blue outline follows the shape of the remains of the wing root/rib/spar...?
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