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Author Topic: Still from ROV video  (Read 1282521 times)

Gary LaPook

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #570 on: January 31, 2012, 02:54:34 AM »

I was going by the Purdue pictures taken along the flight route, mainly in India. I purposely chose them, and not earlier pics, because there could always have been the possiblility that something was changed after the Luke Field incident. Pictures of the Electra at Lae would be great, but I sense that no other markings are on the Electra.
Are there Hamilton-Standard decals on the props? Probably not now.
Tom

I think your summation is accurate, Tom.

I saw decals on the props in one of the pix posted here (with the guys working on the engines), so they were there once upon a time.

What years of exposure have done to them is anybody's guess - likely long disintegrated is mine.

In recent years it was discovered that the darn things (decals) actually retained moisture and could create a nasty little corrosion cell behind the pretty things - which can create a stress riser in a critical plane of the propeller blade.  I've forgotten if there were actual blade failures associated with that, but Service Bulletins and possibly an Airworhiness Directive did emerge for some types calling for removal of decals for that reason.  I don't recall if it was specific to a brand - Sensenich, Hartzell, McCauley, Ham Standard, but maybe one or all.  Stuff just doesn't always behave like you think it might - that's for sure.
Your mention of stress risers in connection with prop blades reminded me of a case I had. A Bonanza shed a prop blade in flight and several people got killed. The failure was caused by a small scratch made during manufacturing in the base of the threads on the shank of the blade creating a stress riser and, because of the particular profile of the threads (I don't remember the name of the thread type,) this resulted in a fatigue crack propagating more than half way though the shank of the blade until there was an instantaneous failure, the blade came off and the plane crashed. I remember counting the beach marks on the fracture surface with a scanning electron microscope to determine how long it had taken for the crack to progress so far. It was a McCauley prop, a D36xxxxx. We found out that other McCauley props had had the same types of failures. McCauley had dealt with these other failures by filling the longitudinal hollow cavity in the the base of the blade (usually used for balancing the blade by placement of lead weights) with red dyed oil that would then weep out through any crack that had progressed from the threads far enough in to reach the hollow cavity which then provided a warning to the pilot on pre-flight not to fly the plane. I came out to Ohio and took the depositions of the McCauley engineers and I was shocked by their attitude when I asked them why they had not used the same warning system for the Bonanza's prop.
"Oh, we only had that problem with a completely different type of prop, a D34xxxxx."
"But they both have the same type of threads, don't they?"
"Yes."
"And the threads are cut using the same technique on both the D34xxxxx and the D36xxxxx blades aren't they?"
"Yes."
"And the same machinery was used to cut the threads on both types of blades wasn't it?"
"Yes."
"So what is the difference between the D34xxxxx and the D36xxxxx blades."
"The shank of the D34 blade is only 3.4 inches in diameter and the D36 blade is 3.6 inches in diameter."
"So the only difference between the blades is two-tenths of an inch in the diameter of the base of the blade?"
"Yes."
"Why didn't you consider incorporating the dyed oil in the D36xxxxx props too after the failures in the D34xxxxx props?"
"Well they were different blades."

Yah, they were so different that the only way you could tell them apart was by using a micrometer!

Think about the attitude of these engineers the next time you are flying a plane with a McCauley prop bolted on the nose.

gl
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 01:20:27 AM by Gary LaPook »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #571 on: January 31, 2012, 07:56:38 AM »

I'm sorry Jeff. I feel like a broken record. SCALE. You point at something that is several feet across. (engine) and there is a cable in the same picture that would likely be a very light control cable or a fishing vessels long line. The cable moves gently in the current in the video. That means its not big and heavy.  So if we use the cable at a quarter or even half inch diameter then that engine is maybe two feet in diameter.  If the object identified as an engine was in the background far enough to show as an actual full size radial engine and the cable in the lower foreground is even a half inch diameter then the range of the ROV lights wouldn't reach to the engine. Too far away. But I think I'm really stretching it here.  This video found a cable and we should concentrate on what that is and see if a scale for all other "items" can be generated.  Start with what you know. Guess later and apply to what is known to see if it stands the scrutiny. No disrespect intended for all the effort.
No, completely agree Irv. We have no idea of scale down there and, that includes everything in the ROV footage, coral, bits of tin, ropes, wire, cable you name it. The only thing for sure we can take from the footage is that it's wet down there, or is it? Could be another alien autopsy hoax ;D
Jeff
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James G. Stoveken

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #572 on: January 31, 2012, 09:05:53 AM »


No, completely agree Irv. We have no idea of scale down there and, that includes everything in the ROV footage, coral, bits of tin, ropes, wire, cable you name it. The only thing for sure we can take from the footage is that it's wet down there, or is it? Could be another alien autopsy hoax ;D
Jeff

Hoax?  Not so fast, Jeff...  Click here!
Jim Stoveken
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #573 on: January 31, 2012, 10:51:51 AM »


No, completely agree Irv. We have no idea of scale down there and, that includes everything in the ROV footage, coral, bits of tin, ropes, wire, cable you name it. The only thing for sure we can take from the footage is that it's wet down there, or is it? Could be another alien autopsy hoax ;D
Jeff

Hoax?  Not so fast, Jeff...  Click here!

James, the part of the report that really made me take notice was;  "interest in the find has reportedly led to a flood of donations."
As I mentioned in a previous post, when I retire in April I will start fundraising big time for Tighar, this sort of research/investigation costs big bucks. I have a few targets for sponsorship as well...
Jeff

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JNev

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #574 on: January 31, 2012, 10:53:10 AM »

POSSIBLE!
Red HT leads?
Yellow cylinderhead still in situ?
Blue arrow catch to open access panel/cowling?

I don't see it - and I agree with Irv's comments on scale.

That line is seen moving gently at one point in the video at least - it seems to be a light rope, perhaps easily less than 1/2 inch in diameter (my guess would be a 3/8" black nylon rope).

The more I look at the end of the 'loop' in the line, the more convinced I am becoming that it is a recent item laid down after breakage and either tossed or lost overboard.  The end of the loop bears a distinct 'set' (memory, if you will) typically of having been wrapped around a cleat or bollard and held fast in tension for a long period of time.  That's not unusual to find aboard a boat.

It's also not unusual for boat crew to use a bit of stand-down time anchored or drifting off-shore some place to do a bit of deck keeping.  And, as bad as it is, sometimes old stuff just gets tossed.  I hate that - I love sea turtles.  ;) 

We have to consider scale - and we have to consider these possible sources for 'man made' stuff that isn't clearly from or attached to NR16020.

LTM -
- Jeff Neville

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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #575 on: January 31, 2012, 11:42:18 AM »


No, completely agree Irv. We have no idea of scale down there and, that includes everything in the ROV footage, coral, bits of tin, ropes, wire, cable you name it. The only thing for sure we can take from the footage is that it's wet down there, or is it? Could be another alien autopsy hoax ;D
Jeff

Hoax?  Not so fast, Jeff...  Click here!

James, the part of the report that really made me take notice was;  "interest in the find has reportedly led to a flood of donations."
As I mentioned in a previous post, when I retire in April I will start fundraising big time for Tighar, this sort of research/investigation costs big bucks. I have a few targets for sponsorship as well...
Jeff

People are probably more interested in understanding more about the objects that are being found in the Baltic than they are in chasing UFOs.  People also donate for the search of Noah's Ark - and even the Lost Ark.  There was a fairly obvious hoax revealed a couple of years ago regarding the former as I recall.  Motavations vary.

What I like about TIGHAR's research is the hard-headed science they've learned to apply.  Ric has been very frank about his 'lessons learned' as he's come along over the years in building this outfit, and TIGHAR has attracted some major talent that we're lucky to have.  I enjoy supporting that kind of effort - but it's founded on hard-headed objectivity - very important I think.

I would probably not mind supporting something like the Baltic floor search - but not because of UFO headlines (and in fact that would make me want to learn a lot more about who's doing what there before I would send a dime).  I wouldn't send a dime to the Noah's Ark search - just my opinion.

As to raising funds for TIGHAR - what's stopping you now?  I'm a shameless promoter at times - drop a few bucks on the site now and then to support - it's easy - look on the home page.

I guess if you want to get into the more professional part of it then you would be approaching Ric and the board - I'm sure they can acquaint all wishing to do so with the appropriate standards of TIGHAR's operations.  I'm sure they'd not ignore desirable talent.

LTM -
As I said, I will retire and, hopefully, if the government don't get to it first I'll get a decent lump sum. Of which I shall donate a chunk happily, I know what I am looking at ;D
Jeff
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #576 on: January 31, 2012, 11:49:11 AM »

Richie, regarding your direction finder chunk of coral. Can you get me a shed load of pics of the direction finder and accompanying PFM box and cable?
Cheers mate
Jeff
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #577 on: January 31, 2012, 12:24:11 PM »

Richies coral direction finder revisited
Red; it's metal with a nice concentric row of holes that hold the bit with the red cross to it
Blue; the PFM box that goes with the direction finder
Yellow; A possible home for the circular bit of wire now? See later post re: circle of wire (There's a bit of wire from the cable harness but out of this shot)
Green; the bit that has broken off therefore making us assume it was a coral outcrop because it wasn't complete
The circle of wire is next to Richies RDF 'coral outcrop'
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 02:26:47 PM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #578 on: January 31, 2012, 12:42:54 PM »

Jeff and Richie--go back o the pic with the 'engine and prop".
Look at the 'prop' above the hub on the blade. Is that a Hamiliton-Standard Decal?
Tom
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #579 on: January 31, 2012, 01:00:15 PM »

jeff do u know of a way, to get a blow up of this still

look under the video time numbers, were black lines point too an it appears to be the base of sumthink with what looks like a
a metal plate...

stupid numbers are in way  :(

pic 1 far away

pic 2 close up marked

pic 3 clouse up un marked
 
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« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 01:02:11 PM by richie conroy »
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #580 on: January 31, 2012, 01:09:41 PM »

its not part of the reef--
Tom
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #581 on: January 31, 2012, 01:27:51 PM »

jeff do u know of a way, to get a blow up of this still

look under the video time numbers, were black lines point too an it appears to be the base of sumthink with what looks like a
a metal plate...

stupid numbers are in way  :(

pic 1 far away

pic 2 close up marked

pic 3 clouse up un marked
 
Yeah, there's loads of junk down at the bottom level of the footage. Identifying it is the problem. Going back to a previous post of yours Richie, the RDF loop antenna. Can you get me a picture of the loop antenna with the PFM box and cable harness? It's a Bendix Mn-5 set.
Your coral outcrop is hiding something important. I've even been on fleabay trying to find one I can take apart, and Bendix have been bought and sold more times than Robbie Keane so, no luck there yet
Jeff
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #582 on: January 31, 2012, 01:35:09 PM »

how random is this image 3 separate anchors in  one place
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #583 on: January 31, 2012, 01:38:54 PM »

will post as i find there not many tho
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #584 on: January 31, 2012, 02:02:21 PM »

Could this be where the mystery circle of wire used to live?
The shielded wire inside the loop?
The inner conductor travels from the feed tee around the loop and is connected to the outer conductor adjacent to the feed tee. The shield is continuous at all places except at the gap which is opposite the feed tee.?
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