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Author Topic: Still from ROV video  (Read 1284001 times)

JNev

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #555 on: January 30, 2012, 12:11:57 PM »

Jeff N., I'm not saying that any logo will be visible or identifiable on any part after all these years. But IF there is a logo that MIGHT be identifiable what is the harm in looking into it? I will admit, I don't see hardly any of what all the stills might possibly be or what the arrows are pointing out. I have no expertise in computer photography, how to adjust this and that to look for this and that. Give me enough gas in my tanks, my mask and fins, and a depth I can get back from and I can recognize stuff on the bottom. For me, I need real time context and 3D. I have seen stuff that has been down a while with marine life clinging to and growing on it. Different stuff likes to cling to different surfaces. It is possible that a logo can be "seen" by what is clinging to the various surfaces on and around it. It might be anything, or it might be something. LTM- John

Granted. 

I was really wondering how in the world Jeff Hayden would be concerned with that detail at this point and so needful of someone to feed him an example of what he might be looking at (as I gather from his report).  I can scarcely imagine that particular item being the least bit discernable at this point.

Part of my skepticism has to do with familiarity with these really cool emblematic logos and how odd it would be for that feature to turn up at this point: I have laid hands on hundreds of them from the oldest radials to the latest turbofans; the older ones are generally an enamaled or porcelin-like colorful image set in a metal 'coin'-like disc and smoothly finished.  On old radials they were typically inset into an embossed ring of the casting or forging that made up the oil sump scavenger casing, between the lower two cylinders. 

What these emblems look like isn't much of a mystery.  There is a nice history on P&W on 'Wiki', including the evolution of their logos - but the notion of such an item peering back at us through this murk at this point smells more like tuna on the dock than a gold coin in the surf...

LTM -
- Jeff Neville

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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #556 on: January 30, 2012, 01:11:10 PM »


A liquor bottle, Benedictine liquer (sp?), cognac, FN's favorite?
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #557 on: January 30, 2012, 01:15:54 PM »

any idea's defo man made
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richie conroy

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #558 on: January 30, 2012, 01:32:43 PM »

right look at were i have marked out with black lines an then look at 1 underneath u can see somethink t shaped an it has 2 holes 1 either end of T
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John Joseph Barrett

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #559 on: January 30, 2012, 01:58:22 PM »

Jeff N-  I saw the history of the PW emblem which was the link I posted. I did see the oil sump on the bottom of the engine but didn't know that the emblem was cast there as well. I was thinking more of a cast emblem affixed to the sides of the engine cowls with raised ridges or even made up of different materials. I don't think a lot of decals were in use then but I could be wrong. I'm still looking for a photo of AE's plane that clearly shows any emblem or decal on the cowl. All I've found in my brief search has been on scale models of the plane which I can not count as accurate. I would think that PW would like to have had their emblem in a visible location, especially given the publicity associated with the flight.  LTM
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #560 on: January 30, 2012, 02:13:33 PM »

Havent seen any emblems or decals on the cowlings, but NR16020 and the Electra emblem is on both tails.
Tom
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #561 on: January 30, 2012, 02:28:27 PM »

any idea's defo man made

Based on what I perceive to be a quarter inch diameter cable in the picture I would suggest the item outlined is the size of a large unfolded paper clip. IF it isn't part of the goose Jeff N is seeing.  I saw an outline of the Electra in my toast this morning too.  Wondered what it meant but realized I had no real scale, position or identifiable markings. So I ate it.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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JNev

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #562 on: January 30, 2012, 02:30:22 PM »

Jeff N-  I saw the history of the PW emblem which was the link I posted. I did see the oil sump on the bottom of the engine but didn't know that the emblem was cast there as well. I was thinking more of a cast emblem affixed to the sides of the engine cowls with raised ridges or even made up of different materials. I don't think a lot of decals were in use then but I could be wrong. I'm still looking for a photo of AE's plane that clearly shows any emblem or decal on the cowl. All I've found in my brief search has been on scale models of the plane which I can not count as accurate. I would think that PW would like to have had their emblem in a visible location, especially given the publicity associated with the flight.  LTM

Sorry John - I overlooked that you had already posted that link.

Like Tom Swearingen, I am not aware of any textured / embossed / relief-type emblems used on cowlings.  The one on the 'nose' of the sump casing is what I'm familiar with and it's fairly prominent through the large open front of the cowling.  Kind of a 'pride mark' for the maker - just like the 'Electra' ID Tom is referring to.

I can't tell that AE was flying any particular evidence of deep corporate sponsorship by what I see in photos.  There was some of that in her day - not unlike what we see on NASCAR racers and air show machines like we see today.  I don't even know that P&W or Lockheed really 'sponsored' her anyway, although support was there and folks like them and Hooven contributed technically.  What their corporate arrangement was I do not know, but I don't recall any signs of it on the airplane.

LTM -
- Jeff Neville

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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #563 on: January 30, 2012, 02:36:41 PM »

I was going by the Purdue pictures taken along the flight route, mainly in India. I purposely chose them, and not earlier pics, because there could always have been the possiblility that something was changed after the Luke Field incident. Pictures of the Electra at Lae would be great, but I sense that no other markings are on the Electra.
Are there Hamilton-Standard decals on the props? Probably not now.
Tom
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JNev

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #564 on: January 30, 2012, 02:39:26 PM »

any idea's defo man made

Based on what I perceive to be a quarter inch diameter cable in the picture I would suggest the item outlined is the size of a large unfolded paper clip. IF it isn't part of the goose Jeff N is seeing.  I saw an outline of the Electra in my toast this morning too.  Wondered what it meant but realized I had no real scale, position or identifiable markings. So I ate it.

Irv,

I'm glad to read of another thought on scale here - I tend to agree with that idea.  We're looking at 'inches' in my opinion, not 'feet'.  It did seem to be a very small goose.  ;)

I saw FN and AE in bad shape from a hard landing in my eggs this morning too - but finally decided the salsa was playing tricks on my eyes...  :P

I DID see Winston Churchill in a bagle, though - I kinda wish that guy hadn't stubbed his cigar out in it.  ;D

LTM -
- Jeff Neville

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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #565 on: January 30, 2012, 02:42:08 PM »

Mr Neville-----you are working WAYYYY to hard!
Tom
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #566 on: January 30, 2012, 02:48:01 PM »

Jeff N-  I saw the history of the PW emblem which was the link I posted. I did see the oil sump on the bottom of the engine but didn't know that the emblem was cast there as well. I was thinking more of a cast emblem affixed to the sides of the engine cowls with raised ridges or even made up of different materials. I don't think a lot of decals were in use then but I could be wrong. I'm still looking for a photo of AE's plane that clearly shows any emblem or decal on the cowl. All I've found in my brief search has been on scale models of the plane which I can not count as accurate. I would think that PW would like to have had their emblem in a visible location, especially given the publicity associated with the flight.  LTM
John, have I missed something here? Did someone think they were decals/stickers? I think in the 1930's they would still be metal 'trademark' types which were screwed down. Anything else wouldn't survive down there which is why I don't hold out much hope for ever seeing NR 16020 on anything down there.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #567 on: January 30, 2012, 04:56:00 PM »

Another coral outcrop, sorry :) I'll post some better stills later
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #568 on: January 30, 2012, 05:14:01 PM »

POSSIBLE!
Red HT leads?
Yellow cylinderhead still in situ?
Blue arrow catch to open access panel/cowling?
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Still from ROV video
« Reply #569 on: January 30, 2012, 06:21:41 PM »

I'm sorry Jeff. I feel like a broken record. SCALE. You point at something that is several feet across. (engine) and there is a cable in the same picture that would likely be a very light control cable or a fishing vessels long line. The cable moves gently in the current in the video. That means its not big and heavy.  So if we use the cable at a quarter or even half inch diameter then that engine is maybe two feet in diameter.  If the object identified as an engine was in the background far enough to show as an actual full size radial engine and the cable in the lower foreground is even a half inch diameter then the range of the ROV lights wouldn't reach to the engine. Too far away. But I think I'm really stretching it here.  This video found a cable and we should concentrate on what that is and see if a scale for all other "items" can be generated.  Start with what you know. Guess later and apply to what is known to see if it stands the scrutiny. No disrespect intended for all the effort.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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