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Author Topic: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study  (Read 69854 times)

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Can anyone identify the purpose of the striped framework on the ground?

Loading ramp of some kind?
LTM,

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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2014, 08:06:25 PM »

looks to me like a barrier placed on the ramp to keep aircraft from taxiing over a particular spot.  In this case there seems to be some kind of door open at the right side, so I'm guessing it is some sort of fuel pit.

amck
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 09:46:11 AM »




Quote from: BMangus on November 11, 2014, 10:56:03 AM

"I'm wondering if this isn't the final fueling before departure the next morning, right after the a/c came out of the hanger with a bright, shiny new patch."

Ric said:
"There was a test flight on Sunday, May 30.  This could be fueling for the test flight or fueling for the flight to Puerto Rico. In any case, it now seems that the patch was installed sometime late Saturday the 29th or early Sunday the 30th."

Makes sense they would do a test flight after installing the patch, just to see how it behaved in flight.  No way of knowing, of course, but I wonder if the vertical stiffener we see the impression of on 2-2-V-1 was added as a result of something seen in the test flight.  Perhaps that's why there is no vertical line of rivet holes.  No way to know. . . .
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Dan Swift

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2014, 11:11:26 AM »

Sorry, been off for a couple of days.  Regarding the question (post #936) about the striped ground barriers, they seem to be directly in front of the old (original) hangar at Miami Municipal (smaller airport in picture).  See bottom right of photo.  Still there in '45. 
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JNev

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2014, 11:43:04 AM »

Cool catch, Dan.  I love this stuff out of general interest. 

Maybe we should break out another string for historic details found along the way of studying the Electra's presence and activities in Miami?  Just wondering if easier to track this or that item of interest if we do some break-outs here, like just done for the 'critic's corner'?
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 09:51:50 AM »

Once we have access to all of the new photos, I suspect that there will be additional details visible that will help tease out when and where they were taken. I'm surprised some of our more ardent TECTIC detractors haven't jumped on this new photo as "an obvious forgery."

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
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JNev

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2014, 10:10:48 AM »

Let us seek to rise above the gnashing of teeth, which will always be with us, I'm sure.
- Jeff Neville

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Gus Rubio

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2014, 11:07:57 AM »

I wonder if Bo McKneely, upon completing the patch in Miami, perhaps stood back and took a snapshot of his handiwork.  An exciting yet frustrating thought, that such a hypothetical picture might exist in a forgotten desk drawer someplace.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 11:11:16 AM »

I wonder if Bo McKneely, upon completing the patch in Miami, perhaps stood back and took a snapshot of his handiwork.

He would have to have a camera - unless he just used his iPhone.
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JNev

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2014, 12:42:28 PM »

A dream shot if ever there was one, what we need...

Can we find out who his celluar carrier was?  ::)
- Jeff Neville

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Dave Lima

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2014, 09:18:10 PM »

Quote
I wonder if Bo McKneely, upon completing the patch in Miami, perhaps stood back and took a snapshot of his handiwork.


Dumb question (?) Apparently he died in 1998 (!) leaving several descendants. Would it be worth finding them to ask if he had a few souvenir photos?
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Bessel P Sybesma

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2014, 02:37:27 AM »

Further to the point I raised in the other thread about trying to trace other aircraft repaired and/or serviced at that same facility or at least some underlying documentation, I realise that I have no real idea of the infrastructure that was in place in Miami at the time that the Electra was there.  I see the name of the mechanic mentioned above, and I seem to recall the occasional reference to PanAm, but I can't find any clear description of what was actually there, which organisation ran the hangars and workshops were the work was undertaken.

Do we have this information listed somewhere?
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John Hart

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2014, 06:20:04 AM »

By 1937 Pan AM and Eastern had moved their operations to Pan Am Field (36th Street airport).  National Airlines was just moving in and, interestingly enough, converting to Electras.  I found it interesting that Pitcairn Aviation apparently had a precursor to FBO there and was wondering if AE's connection to them earlier with the Autogyros may have contributed to a relationship in regards to the work done on the Electra there.  I believe Curtiss had already started the transfer of Miami Municipal facilities as eventually the Curtiss Hangar is shown as Miami Municipal Hangar 1 and the Curtiss sign is gone.  Other than National I think the field was only used for private purposes at that point.  They hosted annual air races during that timeframe as well.  All this info can be found by google Miami Municipal Florida.  There is a website with pictures going back to the founding of the field by Curtiss early 1900s.

There is an Aviation School (HS and adult classes) located just off the end of 9L at MIA that I believe occupies an old Pan Am facility.  I know the school has been in existence since the 30's in Miami from having visited 20 years ago to speak to students when I was stationed at Homestead flying F-16s.  They may be interested in a investigation project for their students.  I don't recall the name of the school but will try to look it up.  They may have records going back that far.
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John Hart

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2014, 06:27:10 AM »

Found the school on Google maps.  It is the George T. Baker Aviation School.  Their website says they were founded in 1939 at Miami High School.  The school moved to its present facility in 1958 when George Baker donated it to the school.  George Baker was president of National Airlines.  Their website is Bakeraviation.edu.
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John Hart

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Re: Interesting historic things about Miami - relates to 2-2-V-1 study
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2014, 07:56:29 AM »

The more I dig into this the more I think it might actually be a good path of research.  Unfortunately a trip to Miami does not fit into my retirement pay budget.  But there are some interesting connections and questions that arise:

1.  Why did AE chose Miami Municipal over the Pan AM (36th street) airport?  With Pan AM (1932) and Eastern (1935) relocating there it was the focus of aviation in Miami at that time and Muni was declining.  Was it because of the Pitcairn operation there?  Did it have anything to do with National establishing operations there while transitioning at the same time to Electras?  What was the relationship between National, Pitcairn, and the city of Miami Port Authority at that time?  My expectation would be that National would need some advance support to set up and it appears they were operating there well before the official establishment of operations in Jul 1937.  Who supported them?

2.  Why I think this may be a good lead has to do with who supported Bo doing the patch work and any other work during the layover?  Certainly he did not do it all alone.  While it would not have been newsworthy to the news papers, a mechanic who worked on AE's airplane would have been something of a local celebrity in the A&P community after she disappeared.  Given the comings and goings, forming and changing, commercial aviation business at the time, I assume they knew each other fairly well and worked for different companies over this timeframe. Who better to consult, or maybe even hire, for a school formed two years after her disappearance?  Who, and what, would he have told about his experience working on the famous aircraft?  Who might have written it down?  If they did, where would such a record be located?

A long shot I know but thought I would pass it on.  And before Monty jumps in on me with his boots-on-the-ground money speech, as I said, it doesn't fit into my retirement pay budget.  If it did, before I would contribute for someone else to go, I  would go myself.  There are contacts for the school on their website who I may contact, but I am hesitant to go far with that if I am unable to follow up in person.
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