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Author Topic: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis  (Read 143688 times)

Alan Harris

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2012, 12:13:55 AM »

I noted the open question about whether a separate direction finding (DF) receiver was installed; if so likely the Bendix RA-1.  I did a web search on RA-1 equipment and was intrigued with what I found.

I'm about as far as one can get from being a radio expert, but I think the current consensus is that there was not a complete separate receiver for DF installed; the DF function was accomplished via a DF Loop Coupler as shown in this post and others near it in that thread.  The Loop Coupler connected the loop antenna to the main–and only–receiver, the Western Electric 20B.  The Coupler was an experimental unit produced in the Radio Research labs in Washington during the short time after that company's acquisition by Bendix and before manufacturing operations were moved to Baltimore.  Because experimental, no company literature or photos are known to survive (people have looked).  Its location in the Electra during the final flight is not a certainty, but there are photos showing it mounted back in the main cabin, on the starboard side, on top of the tall fuel tank.  Others should jump in and correct the above if I have mis-stated something.
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John Balderston

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2012, 04:15:17 AM »

. . .I think the current consensus is that there was not a complete separate receiver for DF installed; the DF function was accomplished via a DF Loop Coupler as shown in this post and others near it in that thread. . .

Thanks Alan - very interesting reading.  Clearly many hours of brain power have been spent on receiver vs. coupler!  On that topic it bugs me that Joe Gurr or whomever would have thought that a coupler was the answer - feeding the W-20B with two (or maybe three - upper, lower and the DF loop) antennas significantly reduces the signal to noise ratio in the receiver.  So many factors conspiring against Amelia in the radio department!

That said, I'm still intrigued by what appears to be a 3-dimensional rectangular box in the video.  Have a look as the "box" slides into view at about 1:34 - not a huge amount of paralax to judge from, but doesn't seem to be an optical illusion formed at a single point in time.  It really looks like a 3-dimensional box with the right front corner oriented towards the ROV camera. 

Cheers, John
John Balderston TIGHAR #3451R
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2012, 06:58:27 AM »

Some of the 'objects'? that appear in the 2010 footage also make an appearance in the latest HD footage, if a little worse for wear, naturally. I posted some images earlier but, I have lots more I will put up later.
This must be the place
 
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don hirth

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2012, 08:35:19 AM »

Re; 'Bendix' photo.......Definately NOT a normal, natural configuration, to my eye! A brief scan of the surrounding area reenforces this conclusion. Weigh in, guys.
dlh
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2012, 09:06:40 AM »

Attached find a snapshot from the "Debris Field" video at the 2:00 minute point, and an image of the Bendix RA-1 receiver box and link to exerpts from the Bendix RA-1B manual courtesy of the AAFRadio website.  I believe the comparison is quite interesting and worthy of further study.  What do you think?

Here's a closer look at the object under discussion.  It's a few frames after the 2 minute video on the website ends. 

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John Balderston

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2012, 09:18:42 AM »

Oh Lord.  Thanks Ric - that is a revelation.  :-[
John Balderston TIGHAR #3451R
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2012, 09:41:00 AM »

Oh Lord.  Thanks Ric - that is a revelation.  :-[

This is the kind of thing that happened to us out there many times on each dive. An OMG moment followed by an Oh Lord moment. 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2012, 03:15:46 AM »

I just read with great interest the new article "What's Next for TIGHAR?" which includes some thoughts on the planned Niku VIII expedition. 

Looks like a good approach for considering how to form that effort up depending on how the analysis of this video goes and with consideration to other searches (like land as well).

Good to see - thanks TIGHAR.

What is interesting in the article is the mention of sport/commercil divers! Is the Debries field at a level that can be dived i wonder?
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2012, 12:31:51 PM »

I think the big clue about depth is that there is a lot of natural light in the video.  With depth comes darkness and the need for manmade light.  Also the fact that Ric is suggesting divers means the debris field is higher than lower on the reef slope.  Im sure some smart diver type out there can say what the depth is for scuba without getting into exotic gas mixtures, depressurization tanks or diving suits like the spyder shown on another thread.  These are likely not what Ric is talking about if the question is around commercial divers vs volunteers.  Im not trying to guess the depth myself but the video shows the amount of natural sunlight and Ric's statements aren't exactly designed to keep the actual depth a big secret.  The graphic images of the ROV passes on this forum, would show anyone where to look. 
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2012, 12:38:58 PM »

If you take a look at the non-high resolution/comparison video on the youtube Tighar channel it has the depth and orientation displays in real time. This was the camera used for real time navigation of the ROV as opposed to the HD camera on the ROV.
This must be the place
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2012, 12:56:39 PM »

Ouch.  I thought the depth of the field was supposed to be a secret?  Seems like all the info is available to mark the spot with an "X".
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2012, 01:01:05 PM »

SSSSSHHHHH!!!!
Don't tell everyone Irv ;)
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2012, 01:07:01 PM »

Me bad!! 

I think the "X" actually lies over Times Square in New York.  (That should throw them off!)
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2012, 04:22:09 PM »

There were many ROV dives and each dive spanned many depths.  What makes you think the Standard Definition image that includes depth information is from the same dive or is anywhere near the debris field?  As for the question of what sort of divers we might use to investigate targets seen in the HD video, don't assume we're talking about the targets we've released publicly.  If we had targets at amateur scuba depth, how dumb would we have to be to release that information?
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tom howard

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Re: Current Status of Niku 7 video analysis
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2012, 12:41:45 PM »

I seem to remember ric or someone saying the majority of the debris was around 800 feet. That is beyond amateur divers by a good bit. Pada recognizes 120 ft as the limit of regular amateur divers.
At 800 ft. You are talking recovery with mixed gases,rov claw, submersible, or one of the many ads suits. A lot of oil pipeline deep repair is now done with ads as it allows  human objectivety in what to pull and how hard without damaging other areas. Also there is unlimited vertical movement and none of the issues with exotic gasses. Now that the rov has located the field I would lease a newt suit for examination and retrieval.


Of course a guy with a rope and grappling hook could mess things up as was previously pointed out.
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