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Author Topic: Perish the Thought II  (Read 38878 times)

Chris Johnson

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2012, 01:22:54 PM »

Possible Prehistoric Occupation

It was a Basalt Adze found during Niku 1.

Marty ref fish traps there is no dating evidence to suggest that these are pre Arundle or PISS and fish traps are common in lagons in modern day Kiribati.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2012, 05:04:44 PM »

Possible Prehistoric Occupation

It was a Basalt Adze found during Niku 1.

Thanks.  Added to the "Visitors" page.

Quote
Marty ref fish traps there is no dating evidence to suggest that these are pre Arundle or PISS and fish traps are common in lagoons in modern day Kiribati.

This is something for the archaeologists to debate with each other.  On the "Visitors" page, all I say is that it may be evidence of prehistoric visits.  By definition, that implies that it may not be evidence, either.  Folks whose job it is to date things may have some way of comparing a known prehistoric fish trap to the ones on Niku (if, indeed, they are fish traps at all, and not just from random or natural effects).  My goal is just to provide a handy place for anecdotes about signs of visits that seem not to have been part of the PISS colony or expeditions whose records have been examined by TIGHAR. 

Niku is far, far away from here, but not so far away from modern fishing boats, tramp steamers, yachts, and (I guess) native boats.  I speculate that there is no way for TIGHAR to ever know for sure how much human traffic there has been on the island from these voyagers.
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George Pachulski

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2012, 05:56:42 AM »

After reading the info in Betty's notebook and assuming it to be a factual account I am inclined to think that the landing was much rougher than I had thought before. Assuming  Fred did not wear his seatbelt, was in back  when Ae landed on the reef,   a reef with a deep crevice near the north side. If the plane hit this during its final landing roll they may had been thrown against the roof of the electra , FN more than AE. 

This leads me to speculate that they never got out of the plane , tried to contact rescuers in vain and were eventually washed out into the ocean after a beating on Nicu's shoreline (acka the sailor's report from the Norswitch City who was washed from the ship to the shore and back again a few times).

The larger wave that took them out would have carried them a good distance from nicu and then dropped em to the bottom of the sea still bodily inside the plane.

This means that they are still in the plane and any findings on Niku acka the bones are (vistors from Hull island?) someone else.....
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 10:24:09 AM by George Pachulski »
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Dave Potratz

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2012, 02:11:32 PM »

Hmmm, I'm finding it difficult to imagine that AE & FN remained in what must have been a hot, hot cabin for nearly a week with very few provisions, leaving an entire atoll to itself.

Not to mention that to hold that speculation, one must also dismiss significant evidence that suggests otherwise.

dp
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 02:15:19 PM by Dave Potratz »
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Lauren Palmer

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2012, 02:46:19 PM »


Question from a newcomer:
Exactly how many "foreign" skeletons did the natives claim to find when they had settled on Niku?  Seemed to me that the carpenter's daughter claimed there were some from the ship all lined up.....If so, what happened to them, and did AE add Fred to that group?  I also had thought that Fred probably was unbuckled and thus died soon from head injuries...
Lauren
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 03:01:48 PM by Lauren Palmer »
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George Pachulski

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2012, 04:13:01 PM »

I belive that 11 sailors were lost from  the Norwich city  in 1929 of those , correct me-- 9 skeltons were found near the ship.

But I don't think a sailor could live for 5 more years to become the stout sandal skelton partial.

A week in the plane would be though unless Fred was bad off and couldn'tget out easily ie broken leg and headwound?
Then again Ae was not really a survivalist type person was she? Once you see the plane is going to sink youd get out .
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 04:17:42 PM by George Pachulski »
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richie conroy

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2012, 04:25:48 PM »

Hmmm, I'm finding it difficult to imagine that AE & FN remained in what must have been a hot, hot cabin for nearly a week with very few provisions, leaving an entire atoll to itself.

Not to mention that to hold that speculation, one must also dismiss significant evidence that suggests otherwise.

dp

I doubt they would have stayed in the Electra at all, only to try and communicate, given the reef surface i think they would have only took the lightest and most important item's to avoid more injuries

we know from Lae telegrams Amelia sent to George, she and Fred had a small suitcase each with essentials inside toiletries underwear change of clothes etc, what else do u take knifes ? maps? sextant? toolkit? rope? torches?

 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2012, 04:40:14 PM »

I belive that 11 sailors were lost from  the Norwich city  in 1929 of those , correct me-- 9 skeltons were found near the ship.

But I don't think a sailor could live for 5 more years to become the stout sandal skelton partial.

A week in the plane would be though unless Fred was bad off and couldn'tget out easily ie broken leg and headwound?
Then again Ae was not really a survivalist type person was she? Once you see the plane is going to sink youd get out .

Think it was between 3 and 5 bodies recovered and buried on the shore near the wreck.  No link as between bases but can confirm tomorrow.
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2012, 06:03:02 PM »

I belive that 11 sailors were lost from  the Norwich city  in 1929 of those , correct me-- 9 skeltons were found near the ship.

But I don't think a sailor could live for 5 more years to become the stout sandal skelton partial.

A week in the plane would be though unless Fred was bad off and couldn'tget out easily ie broken leg and headwound?
Then again Ae was not really a survivalist type person was she? Once you see the plane is going to sink youd get out .

Think it was between 3 and 5 bodies recovered and buried on the shore near the wreck.  No link as between bases but can confirm tomorrow.

Here is the link to the info about the wreck of the Norwich City. Says 11 died, 3 bodies recovered and buried on the beach.

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/ResearchPapers/WreckNorwichCity.html
Woody (former 3316R)
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2012, 06:21:53 AM »

Thats the one.  There was a story of the pigs that the settlers bought to the island digging up the remains.
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George Pachulski

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #25 on: July 04, 2012, 05:19:41 AM »

Speaking of the bones and the notations :===

Bones file.
Ballpoint pen under "Other Connected Papers":
R39
B946

I'm sure after twenty years this has been checked out but I will ask as I can't find any info; :-\
could these be the numbers of  plots in some graveyards , say two possible places that the bones could have been intered at graveyards that were in use at the same time the ballpen notation was made?

Possibly some plots were somehow made avaliable for bones burial?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 05:25:48 AM by George Pachulski »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #26 on: July 04, 2012, 01:02:57 PM »

Speaking of the bones and the notations :===

Bones file.
Ballpoint pen under "Other Connected Papers":
R39
B946

I'm sure after twenty years this has been checked out but I will ask as I can't find any info; :-\
could these be the numbers of  plots in some graveyards , say two possible places that the bones could have been interred at graveyards that were in use at the same time the ballpen notation was made?

Possibly some plots were somehow made available for bones burial?

I'm the person who made that note.

I observed the numbers on the outside of the bones file during the 2003 expedition to Fiji and New Zealand.  I'm the person who made that page on the wiki. 

I asked everyone I could whether they looked like part of a warehouse system.  We're looking for two different boxes: the box containing 13 bones and the sextant box that (I presume) had parts of a man's shoe, parts of a woman's shoe, and corks on brass chains in it. 

The numbers do not correspond in any way to the records of burials and cremations studied so thoroughly in 2003 by Roger Kelley.

They do not match any of the filing systems used by the WPHC.  I looked at all of the indexes (or "indices," if you prefer) in the WPHC from 1940 until the system ceased to be used in the 1970s.

I am attached to the idea that they may have had some significance for the bones file when they were written on it, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what that significance was.

I'm responsible for calling them "ball-point" ink.  I'm not a qualified document examiner, but I have read a lot of archival material, both from the WPHC and from my work on the biography of Michael Polanyi, so I consider it an educated guess.

While I'm guessing, I guess that they would not represent burial plots.  I would expect someone who wanted to record that information to have included an indication of which cemetery to search for those locations.  Only one box would need burial in any event.  There would be no need to bury or cremate the sextant box and its contents.
LTM,

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« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 01:05:01 PM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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richie conroy

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2012, 02:41:17 PM »

in red (reserved for highest authority) 39 telegrams, pages/reply's

in blue or black (general authority) 946 telegrams/reply's

just an idea  :)

 
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« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 03:07:59 PM by richie conroy »
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Matt Revington

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2012, 02:46:37 PM »

For those who might want to know about the life and activities of  DW Hoodless, his biography by Misi Utu is available as scanned pdf chapters at:
http://www.pacifichealthvoices.org/files/

just go to the links titled Chapter1_Misi_Utu etc
There is no mention of the bones, the biography is not terribly well organized jumping back and forth in time but it gives insight into the world of a western person in colonial Fiji society
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Perish the Thought II
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2012, 05:50:53 PM »

For those who might want to know about the life and activities of  DW Hoodless, his biography by Misi Utu is available as scanned pdf chapters at:
http://www.pacifichealthvoices.org/files/

I believe "Misi Utu" was his local nickname and the name of the book.

The book was written by his daughter, Margaret W. Guthrie.

Quote
There is no mention of the bones, the biography is not terribly well organized jumping back and forth in time but it gives insight into the world of a western person in colonial Fiji society

Yes, exactly.  If I remember correctly from when I read it in Fiji, it also shows how compressed his medical education was.  He only spent two or three years, at most, in training in England.  His original work in Fiji was in another field (mathematics?).

He was a great gift to the people of the islands.  He saw their need for better health care, and did something about it.
LTM,

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