Still from ROV video

Jeff Victor Hayden · January 14, 2012, 07:02:50 AM

The object I have boxed has led me to search for other objects in this location that could have belonged to the same assembly. It looks like a forked appendage with a hole facing us. In the middle of it there is also an unknown object but, alas, it has coral growing on it, but I'm working on it.. To the right of the boxed in object there is a crevasse, hole, cavern, cave, grotto? The back of the sofa syndrome, it gathers junk... coins, buttons, lego bricks, m and m's etc... In it there are more objects but, they are proving difficult to identify and enhance but again, I'm working on it.

Jeff Victor Hayden · January 14, 2012, 07:12:55 AM

Is this it?

Erik · January 14, 2012, 07:40:05 AM

This montage shows a nice correlation..... with the Harney drawing embedded.

Full size image here.

Jeff Victor Hayden · January 14, 2012, 07:46:30 AM

Quote from: Erik on January 14, 2012, 07:40:05 AM
This montage shows a nice correlation..... with the Harney drawing embedded.

Full size image here.

Excellent Erik. Of course we don't know if it's the Electra, but you have presented the theory of the landing gear strut remarkably well, brilliant!
Jeff

richie conroy · January 14, 2012, 08:01:54 AM

jeff on the image i have attached look in the white box in corner were arrow is pointing to me it looks like a submerged plane

u have to take into account that it looks bigger because i have had to enhance light around it

richie conroy · January 14, 2012, 08:06:12 AM

also note the, 3 tail like surf trail as if a mono tail was protruding the surf

John Ousterhout · January 14, 2012, 08:11:21 AM

"A battery operated, hand held Garmin Gps device "
...only works on the water surface. The ship has a better one, but it won't tell us where the ROV is , other than in very general terms (those are already known). The ROV uses an underwater transponder system to keep track of it's location in 3-D. A computer system combines the surface GPS location data with the underwater transponder location data to figure out the ROV location.
I don't know what sort of transponder the ROV used, other than what is in the Finding Amelia film. I'm a little familiar with two types - an acoustic one (sort of old "sonar" technology), and a variety of radio-based ones, mostly using relatively low frequencies with an underwater antenna (that's my guess on what got chopped by the prop). The ROV picks up the signals from the antenna, in a way that resembles the way a GPS picks up the signals from satellites, but they are not the same signals or frequencies.
Later edit: Seabotix has a nice website worth visiting to learn more about ROVs. http://www.seabotix.com/products/tracking.htm

The most obvious backup system would be to use a surface ship with a commercial sonar "fish finder", hovering over the ROV location. That's dangerous duty in the surf visible in the video.

Finding any object on the reef that can be identified as belonging to a Lockheed might be the best way to attract investors. Fuzzy videos without scale aren't enough. We might be fooling ourselves when we identify tailwheel assemblies. What if the black squiggly thing is a biological growth 12 inches tall? Then the "tailwheel " feature couldn't be the size of an Electra unit.

Jeff Victor Hayden · January 14, 2012, 08:22:09 AM

Quote from: John Ousterhout on January 14, 2012, 08:11:21 AM
"A battery operated, hand held Garmin Gps device "
...only works on the water surface. The ship has a better one, but it won't tell us where the ROV is , other than in very general terms (those are already known). The ROV uses an underwater transponder system to keep track of it's location in 3-D. A computer system combines the surface GPS location data with the underwater transponder location data to figure out the ROV location.
I don't know what sort of transponder the ROV used, other than what is in the Finding Amelia film. I'm a little familiar with two types - an acoustic one (sort of old "sonar" technology), and a variety of radio-based ones, mostly using relatively low frequencies with an underwater antenna (that's my guess on what got chopped by the prop). The ROV picks up the signals from the antenna, in a way that resembles the way a GPS picks up the signals from satellites, but they are not the same signals or frequencies.

The most obvious backup system would be to use a surface ship with a commercial sonar "fish finder", hovering over the ROV location. That's dangerous duty in the surf visible in the video.

Finding any object on the reef that can be identified as belonging to a Lockheed might be the best way to attract investors. Fuzzy videos without scale aren't enough. We might be fooling ourselves when we identify tailwheel assemblies. What if the black squiggly thing is a biological growth 12 inches tall? Then the "tailwheel " feature couldn't be the size of an Electra unit.

In the case of the tail wheel stills I don't have anything to go on regarding scale John. With the first discovered object 'the main gear strut?' I had the photos from the Tighar site with the meauring tape so, could get a ball park sense of scale for the area in question. With the tail wheel area I have nothing to go on at all.
I will post up some more stills though of the junk in the 'mermaids grotto' just to the right of the 'tail wheel' thingy.
Jeff

richie conroy · January 14, 2012, 08:23:08 AM

notice on this how far out u can see the reef go

Jeff Victor Hayden · January 14, 2012, 08:29:32 AM

Quote from: richie conroy on January 14, 2012, 08:01:54 AM
jeff on the image i have attached look in the white box in corner were arrow is pointing to me it looks like a submerged plane

u have to take into account that it looks bigger because i have had to enhance light around it

I see what you mean Richie and, yes it does resemble an outline of a plane. You have to take into account though the depth of the water out there and, the fact that the photo was taken years after the plane vanished. It would be a miracle if it was still intact by then, look what the conditions in that area have done to the SS Norwich City and that was made from steel plates and built like a brick shit house :). I suspect the plane started breaking apart within weeks of being subjected to the same beating but, good detective work Richie.

jeff

Erik · January 14, 2012, 08:29:59 AM

Quote from: John Ousterhout on January 14, 2012, 08:11:21 AM
"A battery operated, hand held Garmin Gps device "
...only works on the water surface. The ship has a better one, but it won't tell us where the ROV is , other than in very general terms (those are already known). The ROV uses an underwater transponder system to keep track of it's location in 3-D. A computer system combines the surface GPS location data with the underwater transponder location data to figure out the ROV location.
I don't know what sort of transponder the ROV used, other than what is in the Finding Amelia film. I'm a little familiar with two types - an acoustic one (sort of old "sonar" technology), and a variety of radio-based ones, mostly using relatively low frequencies with an underwater antenna (that's my guess on what got chopped by the prop). The ROV picks up the signals from the antenna, in a way that resembles the way a GPS picks up the signals from satellites, but they are not the same signals or frequencies.

The most obvious backup system would be to use a surface ship with a commercial sonar "fish finder", hovering over the ROV location. That's dangerous duty in the surf visible in the video.

Finding any object on the reef that can be identified as belonging to a Lockheed might be the best way to attract investors. Fuzzy videos without scale aren't enough. We might be fooling ourselves when we identify tailwheel assemblies. What if the black squiggly thing is a biological growth 12 inches tall? Then the "tailwheel " feature couldn't be the size of an Electra unit.

Good point!

We should also add that it would only be accurate to +/- 15 meters or so. Even then, the ROV would only have 'relative' accuracy to its own self. Not enough accuracy for a return trip.

Which brings up a good point whether or not they even established a differentially corrected base station to bring the accuracy to +/- 1 meter or so. That gets a little more complex (and exponentially more expensive) with shifting boat movements, etc in open water. I'm doubting they had that but is possible. If they did have a base station, I would certainly bet that it would have had to be calibrated and collecting data on stationary land.

Anyone know if/how open ocean GPS navigation is differentially calibrated, its accuracy, cost, and commercial availabilty? Or if TIGHAR has been using their own base station on Niku?

richie conroy · January 14, 2012, 08:41:18 AM

thx jeff just wanted to make sure it was nothink :)

John Ousterhout · January 14, 2012, 08:52:09 AM

It occurs to me that it might be helpful to start a "catalog" of objects we think we recognize on the videos, for future reference. If/when we get an ROV back down there, with the ability to know where it is, and a scale, a catalog list would be handy.
Anyone got ideas of a simple way to begin one?

BTW, SeaBotixhas a good website

Martin X. Moleski, SJ · January 14, 2012, 08:57:36 AM

Quote from: richie conroy on January 14, 2012, 05:55:03 AM
http://www.wc5c.org/WC5CClub/NikumaroroAmeliaEarhartHamRadioTest/tabid/570/Default.aspx

just wondering if Tighar was aware of this ?

Yes.

Martin X. Moleski, SJ · January 14, 2012, 08:59:55 AM

Quote from: Jeff Victor Hayden on January 14, 2012, 06:30:14 AM
As I mentioned before, it's likely that all this junk originates from a plane but, is it the Electra? could a WW2 plane have ditched here? is there any record of this happening? You wouldn't be interested into researching this possibility Richie?
Great work Richie, keep going.

"Aircraft lost in the vicinity of Nikumaroro."