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Author Topic: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?  (Read 72180 times)

Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2012, 05:01:34 AM »

On April 26 (three weeks ago!) Jeff Glickman and Martin Moleski were at Rhodes House, University of Oxford, to "get a much better copy of the Bevington photo". Any news about Nessie?
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2012, 05:32:51 AM »

Marty----My bust---I overlooked that article on aircraft losses that you posted. There are 6 reference to aircraft NOT at Canton Island that were lost. Some were not near Gardner/Niku---some say 'exact location unknown'. I'll get back to you guys after some 'cyphering'
Tom
 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2012, 07:11:59 AM »

Ok---out of the 6 that went down at sea, only 1 is location unknown. Others were too far from Niku to be considered, even if the currrents were to have carried it to the islands.  Thinking that a submerged aircraft will drift several hundred mile and ens up on the reef at Niku is a STRETCH, even for me. PBM-3D, BU # 45236 "forced landing at sea, flooded and sank in high seas" is the only possiblity on THIS list that is really unaccounted for. 2 H8K Kawanishi's shot down were inthe vicinity of Howland and Baker, which makes them 350+ miles to the north west. One other, a PBJ, was inroute Canton to Samoa, and would have been 175 off course west to have been near Niku. This narrows down the list of what we KNOW. Not if any carriers off loaded aircraft into the ocean. Not any other Japaneese aircraft not accounted for.
This get tricky---so the Niku expedition will tell us if it is the Electra, or a seaplane.
tom
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2012, 07:57:53 AM »

On April 26 (three weeks ago!) Jeff Glickman and Martin Moleski were at Rhodes House, University of Oxford, to "get a much better copy of the Bevington photo". Any news about Nessie?

Small correction: it was Ric Gillespie who accompanied Jeff to Oxford.  I would have loved to have gone on that expedition, but I wasn't invited and I couldn't have accepted an invitation.  I teach for a living, and certainly could not have afforded the time for the trip.   :(
LTM,

           Marty
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2012, 08:03:59 AM »

Good analysis Tom. I would add that the object in Eric Bevingtons photograph 'Nessie' was there in October 1937, when the picture was taken. Which pre-dates WW2 by a good few years. So if that object has anything to do with what is on the reef slope at 300 metres it is unlikely to be WW2 vintage.
I searched for pre-1940 recorded missing aircraft in the Pacific area and ended up clutching at straws to find anything remotley close to Gardner (1000 miles plus, plus, plus).
Consequently, if it has nothing to do with what's on the reef at 300 metres then anything post 1937 comes into play but, again, there's not much recorded as missing in that area, or within range of.
This must be the place
 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2012, 11:09:59 AM »

Jeff---I found the same thing. As our adventurers pre date WWII by 4 years, and Nessie and whatever is there 3 monts after the disappearance, it seems by logical deducttion that if it is NOT related to the Norwich City, it 'might' be from the Electra. If, and only if, The Electra landed on the reef as we think, and Nessie is in the spot that we think.  At this point I dont see any other conclusion. The underwater search on Niku VII will tell us one way or the other.
Thoughts?
Tom
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2012, 12:34:36 PM »

Well Nessie is NOT part of a Martin Mariner, PBM-3D that was lost. First off---the first ever flight was in October of 1939, and this particular aircraft was lost in September, 1944. So, unless there was a time warp, it is impossible for Nessie to have been from this aircraft, since the Nessie pic was made in October of 1937, 2 years before the first ever flight.

That is NOT to say that some of the suspected wreckage on the reef isnt military. However, in my simple mind----i cant see it being other than the Electra.
Tom
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2012, 01:17:51 PM »

I haven't seen anything that points to it being a warbird Tom. No armaments, weapon mounts, weapons, ammo, nothing. It has 2 engines but, one on each wing so, that rules out a PBY cat. The only way around the 2 engine theory is to theorise it was a single engined Blohm Voss 141, unlikely by miles.
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2012, 02:16:55 PM »

I havent either Jeff, unless the PBM (#45236) that went down in the phoenix group, ended up on the reef slope at Niku. Records indicate the crew was rescued by the  Liberty ship James P Doty Sept 5, 1944. Captains log states that the mishap occured at 06*25' S, 176*25'W or about 175 miles SW of Gardner on a 228* heading. That would be a long way for a plane to drift, but I guess since it was a Martin Mariner, it might be possible with enough currents, and enough bouyancy to make it. A real stretch, but well see in July.

Tom
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« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 02:44:08 PM by Tom Swearengen »
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Brad Beeching

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2012, 04:46:02 PM »

The PBM is out as well fella's... the Martin PBM prototype was only a drawing in 1937. First flight was 1939...

PBY First Flight: 1935

P2Y First Flight: 1929

Don't know of any lost in mid-1937

Hope this helps
Brad
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2012, 07:03:57 PM »

The only object I've seen on a rocky beech that even reminds me of the Nessie photo is a tree trunk washed up at Crescent Beech I saw in the 1960's.  The crown was submerged, and the roots stuck up above the low-tide line.  Roots can have almost any imaginable shape, and floating trees were a noted hazard to navigation in the south Pacific during WWII, damaging many PT boats.  I can't imagine any evidence of a stranded tree would be left.  Then again, Richie's enhanced version of Nessie doesn't look like a root ball to me.
Then again, I have difficulty imagining how an Electra landing gear could be left pointing vertically, when it would have had an engine mount attached to one side, and a wing to the other side, and a fat tire on the bottom with a couple of big bearings intended to allow the gear and wheel to pivot independantly.  I find all aspects of Nessie completely intriguing, and long to learn more.
Note that I'm also prepared to be disappointed.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
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richie conroy

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2012, 04:13:12 PM »

obviously we can't be sure yet, if it is the electra landing gear

however my reasoning to think, if it is the landing gear then the picture i have attached mat show why its upright ?

if the electra, nose cone was pointing towards beach

an a wave as it's receding snapped the plane from the strut, then maybe it was the mud guard keeping it upright ?

can i just add this is my own explanation to nessie not Tighar's thanks

We are an echo of the past


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Greg Daspit

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2012, 05:37:02 PM »

One reason it may be upright is the gear was tied to a stake to keep the plane from"slipping"

Maybe they built ramps from shipwreck debris to get the prop off the water more and then staked it to the ramp or found the highest point they could and drove up on it and staked it down.

Or they improvised a jack, again from shipwreck debris, to get the props up higher and transmit longer. The jack still holding it up.

I don't believe it snagged on landing. If it did it, I can't see how it would be upright.

Some previous diagrams showed the wheel headed into the island like it was taxiing(sp)? or it fell into a pothole when it was pulled out to sea, but it seems to high for that.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2012, 05:48:59 PM »

One way to jack up the wheel is to find a post like a steel pipe or rod. One with holes or jaged edges would be better. Put it next to the wheel strut. Lever(jack up) up the wheel with longer lever (again salvaged from the shipwreck). Then tie the wheel strut to the post. The post may have been driven into the coral a little when loaded. Now you have more prop clearance to transmit longer and the jack post would explain your image.
3971R
 
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 05:52:06 PM by Gregory Lee Daspit »
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Brad Beeching

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Re: Reno Presentation - Hi-Res Nessie Photo Available ?
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2012, 06:47:08 PM »

That is alot of work for two people, both suffering injuries with limited water, limited food, in equatorial heat? Now try it with heavy pipe long enough to get enough mechanical advantage to lift the heaviest part of the airplane, all the while fighting an increasingly rising surf on a slippery, uneven coral reef.  Could they have staked it? thats plausable, could they have tied it off with rope somehow? It's plausable. I just can't see two people in this situation, in the time available to them, doing anything much more than we suspect they did. Make radio calls and when that didn't appear to work, transport whatever they could salvage to the beach.

Brad
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