Funding ideas, project approach and means of finding assistance.

[Bob Smith]

Yah, Marty. many things are getting bizarre! I didn't consider the " Betchart Expeditions" to be a joint venture. At least not in the proportion TIGHAR needs to be involved in. Who on the floatilla from flotsam had any credentials in the way of science or archaeology besides Dr. Tom? And I think Tom by himself could do better without the extra "help". I just don't think we should water down the special talents we do have in the organization. It does take a certain type of persons to initiate and carry out the expeditions to  an island where only crabs and ferel pigs can survive for years, and special people to find the right data that is the most relative, and the right person to analyse the data, etc. Get more of those kind of people together and go for it!

[Eddie Rose]

No.  We are testing a hypothesis, not promoting an agenda.  A lawyer in a courtroom has an agenda, to defend or prosecute.  He/she can and should pick and choose the evidence that will best argue his/her case.  We are not looking for victory, we're looking for truth.  We have to evaluate ALL the evidence.

So it's not a Holy War? I'm confused.

[Jim M Sivright]

But who's running this airline?

Bob, I believe it's called delegation.

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

Yah, Marty. many things are getting bizarre! I didn't consider the " Betchart Expeditions" to be a joint venture. At least not in the proportion TIGHAR needs to be involved in.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

Who on the floatilla from flotsam had any credentials in the way of science or archaeology besides Dr. Tom?

I don't have the complete list of passengers and their qualifications.

I think it was a mixed crew.

And I think Tom by himself could do better without the extra "help". I just don't think we should water down the special talents we do have in the organization.

I have the impression that Ric and Tom think otherwise.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion.

It does take a certain type of persons to initiate and carry out the expeditions to  an island where only crabs and ferel pigs can survive for years, and special people to find the right data that is the most relative, and the right person to analyse the data, etc. Get more of those kind of people together and go for it!

That is excellent advice, of course, though I fail to see how that differs from what TIGHAR has done in all of its expeditions.

[Bob Smith]

The clincher is in the last paragraph, Marty: "Get MORE of those kind of people", not the ones on the Tour Boat, and maybe from some OTHER organization who are experienced in a similar operation.
Why do I get so much argument about trying to do things in a manner seemingly more able to produce results? I'm beginning to wonder if anybody really wants results or don't care if TIGHAR flounders around playing with boobys and taking pictures of tortured crabs.

[Craig Romig]

"Tourists" would be bad. Research assistants could be good.

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

The clincher is in the last paragraph, Marty: "Get MORE of those kind of people", not the ones on the Tour Boat, and maybe from some OTHER organization who are experienced in a similar operation.

I see.

"More is better."

Why do I get so much argument about trying to do things in a manner seemingly more able to produce results? I'm beginning to wonder if anybody really wants results or don't care if TIGHAR flounders around playing with boobys and taking pictures of tortured crabs.

It's the "seemingly more able" part where we part ways.

You are sold on your vision of what TIGHAR should do.

I'm sold on Ric's vision.

"If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride."

I think TIGHAR has gone all out to test the Niku hypothesis within the limits of the funding available for each expedition.

You say, "try for more."

I'm pretty sure TIGHAR has tried and will try to do more.

[Monty Fowler]

And getting the research assistants to Niku would be problematic, i.e., expensiveasallhellandback. Getting anything to Niku is problematic.

TIGHAR has some tough decisions ahead in the months to come. Niku IX is just one of them.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189EC

[Bob Smith]

I know the "right way" sometimes costs more. And that TIGHAR is aware that money is at the root of many of its problems. I don't claim to know any cheap way or know of anyone who has a cheap way to approach a huge undertaking that this kind of investigation may require. That's exactly the point. Although a larger amount of money and resources may not solve everything or create totally desireable results, it appears that picking away with little pick axes will not accomplish what a stick of dynamite would do. (just an example; I'm not an advocate of using dynamite!) But do you think Amelia and her artifacts are going to wait for another 78 years to be found? There's got to be a better way!

[Ric Gillespie]

Although a larger amount of money and resources may not solve everything or create totally desireable results, it appears that picking away with little pick axes will not accomplish what a stick of dynamite would do.

So your suggestion is that we somehow raise a whole lot more money than we've been able to raise in the past.  What novel idea.  I can't imagine why I never thought of that.

[Bob Smith]

I'm not saying you haven't thought about it Ric. But maybe it will be necessary to accomplish the task. How much has been spent in the last 28 or so years total, and tell me again it couldn't be raised.. More dollars+ more time= more complete analysis and accomplishment.

[Ted G Campbell]

Ric,

Perhaps one way to approach future fund raising is first to take stock of what TIGHAR has to potentially offer a joint venturer.  That is, what is the current or potential value of TIGHAR's AE project assets – this may even mean spinning the AE project off as a separate enity.

For example:

ASSET                              VALUE   
Current book sale revenue                        $
     - Future sales of existing books if AE is found            $

Future new book sales                        $

Movies rights                                   $

Current artifacts value (maybe the tax deductable value of same)   $

Research field training school classes                  $

Cruse ship scheduling/travel agent booking services re Niku      $

Speaking engagements (telling the story of AE)            $

Archeology motivational speaking engagements            $

Historical Web Site creation and management technique training   $

International Government negotiations re future historic event    $
searches

Joint venture partner's business advertisement value         $

The above are examples that come to mind quickly – there may be many others that other forum members will contribute.

This approach would give TIGHAR a value/potential to offer a serious joint venture partner with like value assets that should be able to put the Niku hypothesis to the final test.

Ted Campbell      

[Monty Fowler]

What Ted said. What TIGHAR did in the past to raise funds (largely) worked, but Niku VIII proved we need to change the game plan if we want to have a hope of marshalling the resources for another go.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 EC

[Greg Daspit]

Getting anything there is problematic yet the Fiji Princess was there at no direct cost to TIGHAR. The Betchart Expeditions could be an opportunity to do some limited low cost investigation.  It may be that a portion of the expedition is tourist focused and another portion led by TIGHAR, with whatever experienced members who volunteered and/or were added to the expedition at TIGHAR expense. Both groups sharing the same boat to get there. 

Even if there were a small group added at TIGHAR's expense, the value of most of the trip cost taken care of by others could be an opportunity.
The possible scope depends on what targets might be investigated and who is doing it. I know this is all theory but it is possible to deploy small ROVs from a skiff that could reach the Debris Field at 200'

[Bob Smith]

Greg, I still think the cruise line idea is a bad one. The connotations of providing a leisure, vacation, or cruise activity sets up the wrong mind set in the cruisers as well as the viewers. no matter what the cost. It just wouldn't be worth it in the long or short run. It's a neat idea for later when all the work has been done. If all TIGHAR wants to do is start a cruise line, then have at it! but don't mingle it with serious research and investigation. On the other hand if we could find some organization needing experimentation or trial experience with some new kind of robot, or submarine or other equipment, that's another story. Small ROV's don't do it either, remember? Been there, done that! and big fish eat them don't they? Go for the gold! and before we all cave from old age!