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Author Topic: "It's turtles all the way down"  (Read 47415 times)

Monty Fowler

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2014, 01:01:37 PM »

Gentlemen! Let's all remain friends, shall we?

Arguing over somthing that happened before any of us were born solves nothing, and does nothing to advance the search for Amelia and Fred. Open discourse, openly arrived at, does. My 2 cents.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189ECSP
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JNev

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2014, 02:08:45 PM »

Might I remind you that a revolver does not 'eject shells'.

We both know of revolvers that have an ejector. 

Might I also add that in target training with a semi-auto pistol, one has to move about while concentrating on a single object. 

Would that be as far as a shooter who opened the cylinder of a revolver, activated the ejector and dumped all the shells on the ground in the one spot?

Not sure why you are arguing the point or that I even get your point, so I will defer to agreeing to disagree.

Good idea Mark. I fully agree that you don't get my point. I'll abandon responding to you in this thread.

To Monty's point above (must have been speaking of this) -

It seems that in response to Mr. Samuels' agreement to disagree, Mr. Gard is of course free to abandon as he will, of course - but in the interest of positive discourse I will offer that such election should be made with a bit more civility, please.

---

For the record, I'm not sure I get Tim Gard's point either.  Some revolvers have 'ejectors', some don't; ejectors, when present on revolvers, are merely a means of pushing the empty shells or cartridges out of the open cylinder and either into a receptical, or simply into some random pattern on the ground or floor in close proximity to the shooter's feet.  They in no way resemble the 'ejector' on a semi-automatic pistol but are hand-powered typically by pressing a pin which in turn forces the ejector against the flanges of the empty shells, pushing them from the cylinder.

A semi-automatic, on the other hand, necessarily ejects each empty shell immediately following the shot - and often with significant velocity away from the weapon (and normally to the side - the right, in the case of a right-handed weapon).  This may result in a more random placement of empties, often some feet away from the shooter - and perhaps over a wider area than might be the case of the revolver simply dropping empties near one's feet.

Not sure, but perhaps that is a fair summary of Tim Gard's point and if so, may clarify things a bit.
- Jeff Neville

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2014, 03:39:02 PM »

Attached is the illustration from Dr. Mass's analysis referred to by Mark Pearce.  As you can see, the round was clearly fired from a weapon with a rectangular shaped hammer (like a Colt Woodsman).  Theres's a dot of red paint on the base of the cartridge, not on the bullet as shown on the picture of a British tracer round.
Rats appear to be a problem on Nikumaroro only during periods of extreme drought, such as when the New Zealand survey party was there.  There was no drought while the Coast Guard unit was on the island and none of the veterans we've talked to has mentioned any trouble with the rats.  I've been there ten times (so far) and I've never seen a rat problem.

Any number of people COULD have, at some time in the island's history, been at the Seven Site with a .22 but we know of only one person who DID have a .22 and WAS at the Seven Site.  That makes him the prime suspect.


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Mark Samuels

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2014, 03:48:33 PM »


Any number of people COULD have, at some time in the island's history, been at the Seven Site with a .22 but we know of only one person who DID have a .22 and WAS at the Seven Site.  That makes him the prime suspect.

Round up all the usual suspects and danged if it ain't..........................Gallagher with his plinkin' Woodsman?
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Chris Johnson

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2014, 04:05:39 PM »

General sweeping statement but........as a Brit I doubt that GG was stood in the 7 site popping shots off in a random manner (only the toffs do that when its Grouse Hunting Season) that just wasn't the way it was done in those days.
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Bill de Creeft

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2014, 04:10:21 PM »

Oy! we need to find something new pretty soon !?!
Some of us are throwing sand on others of us !

And...um...some of us *were* born before there were .22 LR shells at the 7 Site (I prefer 'E' Site)...

If no mini-subs...Shovels ??

Bill; just to let you know there is still interest...and Lurkers
Bill de Creeft

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Mark Samuels

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2014, 04:30:14 PM »

Oy! we need to find something new pretty soon !?!
Some of us are throwing sand on others of us !

And...um...some of us *were* born before there were .22 LR shells at the 7 Site (I prefer 'E' Site)...

If no mini-subs...Shovels ??

Bill; just to let you know there is still interest...and Lurkers

Ummm Bill, some were born before Amelia left Miami.  eh?

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Ingo Prangenberg

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2014, 07:09:38 AM »

One quick word about turtles with bullet holes. I've heard that sailers would shoot at turtles out of boredom, sad but true. I guess if it is diving, the bullet could hit the underside. Dead turtles float (decomposing gases) and this one may have washed ashore. Just a thought.
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JNev

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2014, 07:26:52 AM »

How gassly...
- Jeff Neville

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2014, 09:42:26 AM »

So now we're speculating that a turtle who somehow happens to be shot in the belly by a sailor with a .22 just happens to wash up on Gardner Island and its shell somehow gets carried inland to a place where somebody has been shooting with a .22.
Sometimes I worry about you guys.
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Ingo Prangenberg

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2014, 10:38:41 AM »

No, no, I wasn't implying that at all, it was just an observation.

On the otherhand, during the 5 years I live in Ghana, West Africa. The fisherman there didn't really bother killing the turtles first at all. Since these turtles are so defenceless, they just pulled them in, put them on their back and cut the "chest-plate" off while they were still alive. Now THAT is ghastly! Maybe the person who did this was not as inhumane and at least took care of it with a bullet.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2014, 10:43:51 AM »

So now we're speculating that a turtle who somehow happens to be shot in the belly by a sailor with a .22 just happens to wash up on Gardner Island and its shell somehow gets carried inland to a place where somebody has been shooting with a .22.
Sometimes I worry about you guys.

That's OK, Mr. Gillespie, we heartily reciprocate the emotion. I know, my bad.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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JNev

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2014, 11:59:28 AM »

So now we're speculating that a turtle who somehow happens to be shot in the belly by a sailor with a .22 just happens to wash up on Gardner Island and its shell somehow gets carried inland to a place where somebody has been shooting with a .22.
Sometimes I worry about you guys.

I only said I thought it smelled funny...

But, Ric, you KNOW that if you ever manage to lay hands on the carcass of the Electra at Niku, some people are going to say it washed up there after it crashed-n-sank sommers else, jus' like that dead turtle done after that sailor shot 'im...
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 12:01:20 PM by Jeffrey Neville »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2014, 01:01:25 PM »

But, Ric, you KNOW that if you ever manage to lay hands on the carcass of the Electra at Niku, some people are going to say it washed up there after it crashed-n-sank sommers else, jus' like that dead turtle done after that sailor shot 'im...

Or we dug it up on Saipan and planted it at Niku.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: "It's turtles all the way down"
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2014, 07:20:28 PM »

But, Ric, you KNOW that if you ever manage to lay hands on the carcass of the Electra at Niku, some people are going to say it washed up there after it crashed-n-sank sommers else, jus' like that dead turtle done after that sailor shot 'im...

Or we dug it up on Saipan and planted it at Niku.

I still say that Star Trek episode is the only thing to date that explains what really happened.

LTM, who keeps phasers on stun at all times,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR no. 2189 ECSP
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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