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Author Topic: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews  (Read 57092 times)

Monty Fowler

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2014, 12:28:37 PM »

Thank you, Mr. Gillespie, sir, and thanks to the Wonderful John Masterson and Bill Carter. I needed that. Especially the new deposition tidbits.

LTM, who believes in the power of apophenia,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 12:30:57 PM by Monty Fowler »
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Tim Gard

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2014, 12:30:41 PM »

1. Forming an arrow from of an existing clearing,  by collecting firewood at the appropriate edges, seems much more appealing than trying to carve a visible shape out of the scavola in an inaccessible place and from scratch. Collecting firewood without performing a dual function also seems devoid of intention.

I'm fairly confident in saying it would be difficult, well nigh impossible, to cut straight lines through a scaevola patch using bladed hand tools.

Any more than nature's ability to cause the sides of a seven to appear in the same foliage?

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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2014, 01:43:22 PM »

Btw, could someone be so kind and explain what the hell means "gone squatchin"?   :o

"Gone Squatchin" is a reference to the serious analysis of images of Bigfoot by TIGHAR's forensic analyst Jeff Glickman.

Glickman's analysis of the Bigfoot film is a professional evaluation as to whether or not it could easily be determined to be a forgery.

In his discussion, he says that if a forgery, it is very sophisticated, and if an actual uncataloged animal, it is similar to a mountain gorilla.  Lotta "if"s in there.

Glickman's conclusion is that he was unable to establish the film as being a forgery "at this time"

I don't see anything unscientific about his review of this existing film.

What's your point Tim?

Andrew

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Tim Mellon

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2014, 01:52:43 PM »

Btw, could someone be so kind and explain what the hell means "gone squatchin"?   :o

"Gone Squatchin" is a reference to the serious analysis of images of Bigfoot by TIGHAR's forensic analyst Jeff Glickman.

What's your point Tim?

Andrew

Just answering Mr. Lacika's question, Andrew. You must have missed the word "serious" in your haste.

Tim
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PanAm Systems

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Nate Pickering

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2014, 02:00:16 PM »

1. Forming an arrow from of an existing clearing,  by collecting firewood at the appropriate edges, seems much more appealing than trying to carve a visible shape out of the scavola in an inaccessible place and from scratch. Collecting firewood without performing a dual function also seems devoid of intention.

I'm fairly confident in saying it would be difficult, well nigh impossible, to cut straight lines through a scaevola patch using bladed hand tools.

Any more than nature's ability to cause the sides of a seven to appear in the same foliage?

I'm neither a botanist nor an edaphologist (and I don't even play one on the internet), but I don't think this comparison is a valid one. A natural clearing occurs when the condition or composition of the ground precludes vegetation from growing there in the first place. In other words, the "seven" was formed because the scaevola chose not to grow there; it wasn't formed by the removal (natural or otherwise) of preexisting material.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2014, 04:30:33 PM »

Litigious railroad tycoons take note.

Quote

A request:
Let us not stoop.  Please avoid ad hominem attacks.  We're better than that and they accomplish nothing productive.

....

You apparently identify yourself as a "litigious railroad tycoon."  What part of that term is an attack? 
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Tim Gard

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2014, 10:54:14 PM »

1. Forming an arrow from of an existing clearing,  by collecting firewood at the appropriate edges, seems much more appealing than trying to carve a visible shape out of the scavola in an inaccessible place and from scratch. Collecting firewood without performing a dual function also seems devoid of intention.

I'm fairly confident in saying it would be difficult, well nigh impossible, to cut straight lines through a scaevola patch using bladed hand tools.
Any more than nature's ability to cause the sides of a seven to appear in the same foliage?
In other words, the "seven" was formed because the scaevola chose not to grow there; it wasn't formed by the removal (natural or otherwise) of preexisting material.

Agreed.

So no need for saws producing geometric lines in order for the object to be discernible as a seven.

By that reasoning then, no other object has need for saw produced geometric lines in order to be discernible; case in point - an arrow.

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Nate Pickering

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2014, 11:26:33 PM »

1. Forming an arrow from of an existing clearing,  by collecting firewood at the appropriate edges, seems much more appealing than trying to carve a visible shape out of the scavola in an inaccessible place and from scratch. Collecting firewood without performing a dual function also seems devoid of intention.

I'm fairly confident in saying it would be difficult, well nigh impossible, to cut straight lines through a scaevola patch using bladed hand tools.
Any more than nature's ability to cause the sides of a seven to appear in the same foliage?
In other words, the "seven" was formed because the scaevola chose not to grow there; it wasn't formed by the removal (natural or otherwise) of preexisting material.

Agreed.

So no need for saws producing geometric lines in order for the object to be discernible as a seven.

By that reasoning then, no other object has need for saw produced geometric lines in order to be discernible; case in point - an arrow.

Before we can go any farther with this, we need to know the answer (you may know it already; I myself do not) to this question: was there a bladed implement on the Electra more robust than a folding pocket knife?
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Brano Lacika

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2014, 02:20:13 AM »

Btw, could someone be so kind and explain what the hell means "gone squatchin"?   :o

"Gone Squatchin" is a reference to the serious analysis of images of Bigfoot by TIGHAR's forensic analyst Jeff Glickman.

Thank you for your answer Mr. Mellon. Now I find your cap to be cool&witty and should be appreciated ( thumbs up!  ;)). However, Mr. Gillespie, or any other TIGHAR member could easily appear in Casper wearing hat, T shirt or whatever... playing with words: banjo, toilet paper etc. But apparently, they did not...
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 03:27:30 AM by Brano Lacika »
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Brano Lacika

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2014, 02:46:51 AM »

1. Forming an arrow from of an existing clearing,  by collecting firewood at the appropriate edges, seems much more appealing than trying to carve a visible shape out of the scavola in an inaccessible place and from scratch. Collecting firewood without performing a dual function also seems devoid of intention.

I'm fairly confident in saying it would be difficult, well nigh impossible, to cut straight lines through a scaevola patch using bladed hand tools.
Any more than nature's ability to cause the sides of a seven to appear in the same foliage?
In other words, the "seven" was formed because the scaevola chose not to grow there; it wasn't formed by the removal (natural or otherwise) of preexisting material.

Agreed.

So no need for saws producing geometric lines in order for the object to be discernible as a seven.

By that reasoning then, no other object has need for saw produced geometric lines in order to be discernible; case in point - an arrow.

Amelia Earhart was experienced pilot - she knew for sure very well, what could be easier seen from the air and what could be hardly seen. Was cutting of scaevola the most effective way how to attract the attention of overflying rescuers? I doubt about it. Perhaps they were more promising marks to make.. like to pile up things on reef flat / beach / open areas? I mean pieces of coral let s say, or branches of trees, firewood, coconut shells, whatever available... I would expect this to be way easier, feasible even with no tools and more effecive in terms of visibleness. But I can be wrong of course...
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 03:40:51 AM by Brano Lacika »
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Brano Lacika

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2014, 02:58:29 AM »

Litigious railroad tycoons take note.

Then there's that whole apophenia thing. It's one thing I love about the English language, it can be sooooooooo, well, descriptive.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

I can assure you Mr. Fowler, that German, Slovak, Czech, Russian  and probably many more languages are not less descriptive....  ;)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 03:52:46 AM by Brano Lacika »
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2014, 04:28:17 AM »

Before we can go any farther with this, we need to know the answer (you may know it already; I myself do not) to this question: was there a bladed implement on the Electra more robust than a folding pocket knife?
Nate, as far as I know, there is not a list of items carried on board the Electra during the second attempt. There was, however, an extensive inventory of items carried in the Electra during the first attempt. This list was completed by the U.S. Navy before they shipped the aircraft back to the states after the crash at Luke Field. Item #22, on sheet one of the inventory is a Marbles No. 2, Nickel plated hand ax with blade guard, apparently as shown in the picture below. Whether or not this item was included on the second attempt is unknown.
Woody (former 3316R)
"the watcher"
 
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2014, 05:40:06 AM »

Since there seems to be interest in the discussion about the potential for circa-1937 trails at the Seven Site, I felt I should qualify what I said yesterday about my "agreement" with the idea of the trails.  I was agreeing only with the idea that the trails may have at one time been worth exploring in the New Zealand photos.  Time and further analysis showed this idea to be flawed.

One point I'd like to make, and it's sort of a procedural one, is that agreement, in the true sense, is not the ultimate objective to these discussions.  We can all agree or all disagree with one another and still be wrong concerning the true facts.   Agreement, which after all is only another word for group opinion, needs to be balanced by the science to support it.  Groups can often be wrong in their opinions.  Is it testable?  That's an important question.  Is it worth testing?  That's another important question.  To both of these questions, with regard to the trails, the answer to me seems to be no. 

I still think the New Zealand photos are fascinating and may yet offer promising avenues for discussion.  I just don't believe that the trails are this type of avenue. 

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078C
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Lauren Palmer

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2014, 06:24:38 AM »

Happy Birthday, Amelia,
Rest In Peace

(Where to post?---Lauren)
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Question for Ric/TIGHAR vets: Top 5 fantasy interviews
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2014, 06:31:27 AM »

Item #22, on sheet one of the inventory is a Marbles No. 2, Nickel plated hand ax with blade guard, apparently as shown in the picture below. Whether or not this item was included on the second attempt is unknown.

If the hand ax was aboard for the second attempt I would nominate it as possibly being the primary tool used to whack out the patch.  The blade may have made the cut and the blunt side may have made the dents.

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