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Author Topic: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund  (Read 565808 times)

Irvine John Donald

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #90 on: July 23, 2013, 12:07:16 PM »

Chris, I suspect a number of people are whacking their heads repeatedly.

I would like to offer my four cents worth.  Two cents to TIGHAR and Ric and two cents to Mr. Mellon.  Let me just say a few things first.

Mr. Mellon has the right to sue TIGHAR if he feels there was fraud and negligence.  That is his right.  He believes he was a victim.
Mr. Gillespie, on behalf of TIGHAR, claims he made no such representations.  There are none on this forum so, if he did make those representations, they would have to be in non-forum or private communications.  Only the discovery phase of the lawsuit would bring those out.  So both parties feel wronged.  Thats why there are courts and lawyers. 

However let me point out that IF TIGHAR goes to court and loses what do you think the headlines will be?  "Earhart Mystery Solved!!!"  For the courts would have to side with Mr. Mellon and declare that TIGHAR had found the evidence as shown in the 2010 video.  But wait!!  The courts cannot do that because the video is only video.  No recovered artifacts being held up in the courtroom with serial numbers engraved.  No DNA evidence taken from a skull.  No toilet paper with AE's intials on each roll.  In fact only a video that a court judge is not likely going to see much of anything in.

So could the court declare "Amelia Found" and BTW TIGHAR owes Mr. Mellon a few million.  I am no judge or jury so I simply pose the question.

My two cents to Ric and TIGHAR.  While Mr. Mellon and his lawsuit are a distraction they are real.  Mr. Mellon was a very welcome contributor last year and had new evidence been found then everyone would be whistling a different tune.  Take his lawsuit seriously.  He is serious.  And if the court finds that he is correct and you found the evidence in 2010 then be prepared to bask in the glory and reap the rewards.

My two cents to Mr. Mellon.  The court will find you to be an entrepreneur and a sophisticated investor who knows there are no guarantees in adventurous investments.  The hype from the State department and the Bevington Object, led a lot of people, including both you and me, to believe TIGHAR was very close to their goal.  But you chose to throw in with TIGHAR for opportunistic reasons I will assume.  Perhaps I assume wrongly, but why throw in now?  You didn't just win a lottery.  You knew of TIGHAR's efforts for many years.  I submit you got caught up, as did many people, in the hype.  Please drop your lawsuit Mr. Mellon.  Do you really believe Ric and TIGHAR guaranteed to find evidence?  Do you really believe Ric sat on the knowledge that the evidence was in the 2010 video and said nothing?  Really?  It serves no one in the ultimate goal to solve the mystery.  It looks like sour grapes because the glory wasn't there. 

There, I had to get that off my chest.  My opinion only.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Scott C. Mitchell

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #91 on: July 23, 2013, 01:33:59 PM »

Regarding this legal detour to the search, it may be that somewhere out on that Line of Position, still navigating in the night for that compass point where Infinity crosses Eternity until her fate is known at last, the essence of Amelia has bowed her head and wept.

Scott
TIGHAR #3292
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Greg Daspit

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #92 on: July 23, 2013, 01:45:54 PM »

"Don't squeeze the Charmin"
Yes, but it would be funny to see “cellophane” wrapped toilet paper (if somehow sealed) implode as it is forced down to 300 meters.
3971R
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #93 on: July 23, 2013, 02:39:56 PM »

I think that it's important to remember that Tim is asking the court to believe his interpretation of the video of 2010 as proof Ric and TIGHAR knew that they had found the Electra but still looked to folks like Tim, Jeff and other TIGHAR contributors to fund yet another expedition.  Long sentence, sorry.

Those other contributors as well as Ric and others who follow the story, all wanted to believe the 2012 expedition would find either the smoking gun or other more positive evidence.  Everyone was disappointed.  Only those who do not believe in the TIGHAR hypothesis might have been happy with the outcome.  But disappointment was the emotion that most felt.  Granted there is always video and photo analysis going on but no smoking gun.  Probably no one was more disappointed than Ric, who has put 25 years into this search and been disappointed many many times.  But I bet Mr. Mellon was second in line on the disappointment train.  He did put $1 million into it so he has the right to be disappointed at the outcome.

I think Ric has learned to pick himself up after these disappointments, brush off and start into it again. Tenacity is a great virtue.  But perhaps Mr.Mellon, successful in his own right, isn't as experienced in surmounting the disappointment that others have faced. 

But look at some of the other donors as Jeff Neville points out.  To some of them their smaller donations paled in comparison to Mr. Mellon's. In dollar amounts.  But perhaps their contribution was just as weighty, or more so, in terms of their budget.  Or given with the same level of emotion.  But no lawsuit from them.  Yet, they too suffered the disappointment.

Perhaps we are just not seeing the overall reason for Mr. Mellon's lawsuit.  If he was a victim of fraud then weren't we all?  I hesitate to say this but should Mr. Mellon have brought a class action suit on behalf of all the other contributors?  Or did Mr. Mellon simply not think about anyone else?  Or not care?  Or couldn't rustle up the interest?  etc.

People talk about the distraction this lawsuit causes.  It seems to me the work of TIGHAR goes on.  Ric and Jeff Glickman have new photos to work from.  New video targets from the 2012 expedition to review.  A new expedition to assemble and fund.  The forum has lots of readers, contributors and well wishers. Let Mr. Mellon have his day in court.  Its his right.  We need to carry on.  He can't stop that.  He doesn't have that right. 
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Charlie Chisholm

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #94 on: July 23, 2013, 03:00:38 PM »

I hesitate to say this but should Mr. Mellon have brought a class action suit on behalf of all the other contributors?

Actually Mr. Mellon is suing all of us other contributors for the money we have contributed. Where else would the money of any settlement come from?

Tim is indeed against all of us who have contributed - and yet we have nothing to do with the issues in this lawsuit.

Unfair...
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Tim Mellon

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #95 on: July 23, 2013, 03:13:17 PM »

Quote
Perhaps we are just not seeing the overall reason for Mr. Mellon's lawsuit.  If he was a victim of fraud then weren't we all?  I hesitate to say this but should Mr. Mellon have brought a class action suit on behalf of all the other contributors?  Or did Mr. Mellon simply not think about anyone else?  Or not care?  Or couldn't rustle up the interest?  etc.

Actually, Irv, "class action" was my initial instinct, and putting myself at the end of the queue as far as any recovery.

But I was advised to hold off until the sentencing phase, as "too many attorneys spoil the broth."

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
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richie conroy

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #96 on: July 23, 2013, 03:27:46 PM »

Hi All

This Quote from Tim Mellon is exactly what the lawsuit is about

"Can't, Matt: I fully respect Ric's prohibition since 12 January 2013 against any further discussion of underwater images"

12 January 2013

I Believe this was the date that 2 different things happened.

A. Ric had had enough of Tim's claim's of seeing violins, toilet rolls, skeletons etc in 2010 Rov video, And called time due to it damaging Tighar's image and good work.

B. Tim on the other hand believed he was getting close to what he believed to be the truth, And by Ric banning images being posted confirmed this.

So my question is, If we knew then what the outcome of that date means now, What would the solution of been ?

 

 
We are an echo of the past


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Irvine John Donald

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #97 on: July 23, 2013, 03:32:50 PM »

I think there is a fine line here Chris. Someone who is a member of TIGHAR may be potentially liable. But a financial contributor, who is not a member, would not likely be.  I know there are lawyers out there who can weigh in with the corporate law for this case. Ric has probably already clarified this with TIGHAR's lawyers.

I also hope that the motion to dismiss might include costs to be paid.

But my point Chris was really that I believe Mr. Mellon is looking out for himself and not the group. I think you just made the same point. By suing TIGHAR he catches the Board of Directors and everyone else but I have to believe he doesn't think a TIGHAR members except him were in on the secret. 

Just saw Mr. Mellon's post.  Based on that post I believe Mr. Mellon is saying he would put himself last for any dollars awarded and available. That suggests its not about the money. Then why?  Philanthropically want to destroy TIGHAR?  Is it personal?  Do any other 2012 expedition contributors feel a fraud was perpetrated?  Anyone?

As I said in my earlier post, I believe the court would have to declare the 2010 video to contain evidence of AE's Electra for Mr. Mellon to win.  If they do then TIGHAR becomes very popular very fast.

Chris, its head bashing time again.  Jeff, you know I'm not joining any class action suit either.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #98 on: July 23, 2013, 03:46:29 PM »

While I understand the need for forum control I also do NOT believe in cutting off discussion for any personal reason.  A person can be banned if they take personal shots at members, or post inappropriate material (pornography, etc). As Jeff says the posts can be channelled for those wishing to follow a particular thread.  But cutting off a thread or discussion is, to me, just wrong. You can't say its an Open forum then cut discussion because you don't want the discussion to continue. Sorry Ric. This is one area I disagree with you on.

Richie, you might very well have hit the nail on the head. That's what Chris is trying to do with his head.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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richie conroy

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #99 on: July 23, 2013, 03:54:37 PM »

Hi Jeff

I actually suggested to Tim that i would ask Ric if we could perhaps create a locked to the public thread that we could post images in an Tim thought it was a good idea which i did too.... Not sure why i never.

Jeff u are right on the p_ _ _ them off thing, That is what Tighar is bearing the Brunt ov

But should it be Tighar bearing the brunt or just Ric ?
We are an echo of the past


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richie conroy

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #100 on: July 23, 2013, 04:14:38 PM »

Hi Jeff

I agree totally

Just wanted to know other peoples opinions

Thanks Richie
We are an echo of the past


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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #101 on: July 23, 2013, 04:59:13 PM »

... You can't say its an Open forum then cut discussion because you don't want the discussion to continue.  ...

This is not now and never has been an "Open Forum."  It has been moderated from day one.

I'm the one who assembled and maintain the software to run the Forum.  I know whereof I speak.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Tim Sharpe

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #102 on: July 23, 2013, 05:04:49 PM »

Hi All

This Quote from Tim Mellon is exactly what the lawsuit is about

"Can't, Matt: I fully respect Ric's prohibition since 12 January 2013 against any further discussion of underwater images"

12 January 2013

I Believe this was the date that 2 different things happened.

A. Ric had had enough of Tim's claim's of seeing violins, toilet rolls, skeletons etc in 2010 Rov video, And called time due to it damaging Tighar's image and good work.

B. Tim on the other hand believed he was getting close to what he believed to be the truth, And by Ric banning images being posted confirmed this.

So my question is, If we knew then what the outcome of that date means now, What would the solution of been ?
 

7 March 2013

C. Richie Conroy finds the Sonar Target and attention shifts to that.
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #103 on: July 23, 2013, 06:08:19 PM »

... You can't say its an Open forum then cut discussion because you don't want the discussion to continue.  ...

This is not now and never has been an "Open Forum."  It has been moderated from day one.

I'm the one who assembled and maintain the software to run the Forum.  I know whereof I speak.

Well I should not have called it an open forum to describe it. In fact it is a moderated forum that is "open" to non TIGHAR members as read-only guests or registered forum participants, as well as TIGHAR members.  That's pretty much anyone who is interested.  That's what I meant by Open.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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richie conroy

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2013, 06:14:34 PM »

D, research bulletin goes up on website

E, Tim Mellon files lawsuit

The high's and low's of Tighar  :)
We are an echo of the past


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