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Author Topic: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund  (Read 568649 times)

Nancy Marilyn Gould

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2013, 02:16:18 PM »

I just contributed to the TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund.  It wasn't an easy decision, and  I'm not even a member of TIGHAR.  But this just doesn't seem right.

Let's just assume for the sake of the argument that Rick was some kind of a jerk who was embezzling from the organization or swindling contributors: Why would you sue the organization itself and put years of research and hard work at risk?   Many people without the resources of Mr. Mellon have made real sacrifices to support TIGHAR, and now, everything that they contributed is about to go down the drain.

It just doesn't make sense to me.  I'm not a lawyer, maybe some of you who know more than I do can explain it to me.

Please consider contributing to the Legal Defense Fund if you haven't already. 

« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 02:37:34 PM by Nancy Marilyn Gould »
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Jerry Simmons

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2013, 03:48:01 PM »

This is not a good situation. I am not a rich person at all - I live on social security and it feels like this situation is stealing from me. I donate as much as I can and some people would light their cigars with the piddling amount I squeeze out to donate to a cause I think is worthwhile. If the world was balanced right, this kind of thing would not happen. In case anyone is wondering, I donated to Tighar and hope my little amount will help.
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Greg Daspit

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2013, 05:43:49 PM »

The lawsuit states “TIGHAR did not disclose the discovery”.

 RE: “Discovery”:
 I'm not a lawyer but in my opinion, for there to be fraud, TIGHAR has to have believed they “discovered” Earhart’s plane wreckage. I don’t think it’s  fraud on TIGHAR’s part if someone else thinks they discovered Earhart’s plane wreckage by looking at video.

RE:  “Did not disclose”:
It should be noted that some of the footage that is claimed to show Earhart’s wreckage was originally uploaded to YouTube in 2010.  I think this shows there was no intent to hide whatever it is from the public. And I think it shows TIGHAR thought it was “wire & rope”, and not discovery of Earhart's plane wreckage.

 


 

3971R
 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 05:46:43 PM by G. Daspit »
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Charlie Chisholm

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2013, 03:19:14 PM »

Hey Tim I have a great idea -

Why don't you fully fund the next expedition, through Tighar of course, and make the contribution contingent upon Tighar agreeing to first and foremost going to look at and fully investigating the 2010 site. After that is completed will they look at Richie's Anomaly.

If the 2010 site ends up being just lumps of coral, Richie’s Anomaly remains the most likely location of the Electra.

To increase your chances of success, consider a slightly larger contribution to:

Do it sooner rather than later, before some trawler tries to snag it to make a quick buck. Doing it this fall would cost more than doing it next summer, by a certain margin.
Make the expedition longer in length in case of technical difficulties like they had before.
Locate and excavate Camp Zero (which may actually be visible in the Walrus photos once they are analyzed).
Finish off excavation of the Seven site, including deep excavation of the skull hole, fully screening for the missing teeth, which remains the best chance of recovering DNA (short of finding a box of bones on a shelf somewhere).
Locate and excavate the G feature, including restoring it to its previous state before leaving the island.

If the Electra is found in one of the first two locations, all resources should be diverted to investigating the Electra of course.

With your family's connections to Amelia Earhart and Pan Am's connections to Amelia Earhart, this is a natural for you.

And regardless of your current disagreement, Tighar remains your best partner in finding Amelia. Both you and Ric have a long history of working professionally and competently on large projects. I urge you to temporarily put differences aside and work together for the common goal.

What a legacy that would be – the man who financed the discovery of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan's final resting place.

Something to think about.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 05:53:15 PM by Charlie Chisholm »
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Tim Mellon

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2013, 02:10:51 AM »

Hey Charlie, didn't you hear?

The Electra is at Site #1, including the cockpit and nose section, the tail section and tailwheel, as well as both main landing gears. So Richie must have found something else.

The debris at Site #1 was first found in 2010, then refound in 2012 (although slightly disturbed by rock movements on the slope.)

Any further expeditions, IMHO, would be a total waste of resources.

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
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Tim Mellon

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2013, 07:13:05 AM »

That's all very well and good, Jeff, but Charlie Chisolm wansn't suggesting that you pay for it, was he?

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
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JNev

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2013, 08:29:46 AM »

I'm suggesting that I pay what I can; and with warm regards for what you have generously done in the past, with all due respect you can do as you please regarding the future, of course, Tim.

My point is that this unfortunate exercise could well rob many of us of the means to continue on our own via this institution because of what is being sought via the courts now.  The premise of the suit does not even have to be found valid to harm the efforts of us little folk who give to TIGHAR - the mere exercise of defense could prove too taxing.  Sad.  But hopefully many of us will do what we can and come to a better day.

It is also sad to me that one thing that seems to be sought is a court-based vindication of what one individual sees in the footage as conclusively that of Earhart's wreckage.  I have little confidence that will float, but to each his own.  Again though, it is the potential burden of cost that makes the fight such a risk.

It is an old game, of course.  I hope heads might yet cool, but if it is to be joined in the courts then I will support the best cause as I see it.

So, no offense intended - nor any suggestion that you contribute against your wishes, and as a fellow member I will always be grateful for what you made possible through your generous support, no matter what.
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
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Tim Mellon

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2013, 08:48:56 AM »

Jeff, I understand your position and appreciate your gentlemanly response.

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
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Matt Revington

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2013, 10:16:06 AM »

Tim
Since we are being civil here, I wonder (if it doesn't interfere in some way with your legal action) if you could post an image or two that you feel is the best proof of the presence of AE or the electra in the videos or even you could tell me which message in the lengthy video analysis threads had those images.  I just want to get a better feel for what the dispute is based upon.

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 12:51:07 PM by Matt Revington »
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manjeet aujla

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2013, 11:33:46 AM »

Ditto Matt above, with reference to Mr Mellon sharing with us what his reasons, or reasonings are, insofar as he can.

Yes, we may eventually see those reasons in the lawsuit filing. But this forum being the more knowledgeable group of people on the AE search, maybe we can convince him otherwise, or maybe he can convince us. ( The "we" does not include me as I am a new poster although I have been following this site for a while).  The lawsuit filing itself shows that Mr. Mellon must feel strongly that evidence has been overlooked. Not being privy to discussions between the two parties, if any, this forum seems to me the most logical avenue for a public discussion of his reasons, especially since he is a valued participant here. Anyway, I hope there are behind the scene discussions going on which can lead to a satisfactory settlement for all.

Also as an introduction and comment from a new poster, I lean towards the Niku hypothesis based on the 1) the logic of the 157/337 path to Niku, 2) the verified radio transmissions, 3) the bones discovery, 4) the 7 site and its fire features, 5) Nessie.

 The single most remarkable thing which struck me was Gallagher's message to his superior on the bones discovery. He uses the words "bones... possibly of Amelia Earharts", which is a statement not made lightly by a well educated civil service officer. We don't know what else he saw, other than the bones, sextant, shoes etc. that made him say that. But the scene/discovery must have made an impression on him, to connect it to AE. I know, this is pretty unscientific, but this contemporary account of his, which could be dismissed as a wild speculation, is one of the reasons for my leanings.



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Nancy Marilyn Gould

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2013, 12:58:03 PM »

I see three possible outcomes for this case:

#1. Mr. Mellon is wrong and TIGHAR loses the case -- very bad for us, although it would make for some interesting headlines.  If Mr. Mellon is wrong and yet still manages to persuade the court that AE and her plane have indeed been discovered, it will be fascinating to see what the larger scientific community has to say, not to mention the rest of the world who will be wondering what the heck happened to the American justice system.  This could have global implications!  We will probably become the laughing stock of the rest of the world.  At least life will be interesting.

#2. Mr. Mellon is wrong and TIGHAR wins the case -- great news for us

#3. Mr. Mellon is right and TIGHAR loses the case -- justice has been served, and at least we'll all finally know what really happened to AE (a "win" for us)

I'm not considering the fourth possibility (Mr. Mellon is right and TIGHAR wins the case) to be a very likely possibility. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm pretty certain that Mr. Mellon is wrong.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 01:18:00 PM by Nancy Marilyn Gould »
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Matt Revington

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2013, 01:08:06 PM »

One problem Nancy is that outcome #2 (Mr. Mellon is wrong and TIGHAR wins the case ) which looks good on paper for those interested in the resolution of this mystery could still drain away much of the cash needed to fund another expedition or at least draw some of the focus away from running that expedition which would be almost as bad.  Plus even if TIGHAR wins this case could taint them in the eyes of the general public who don't know the details and interfere with their fundraising capabilities in the future.  I hope that I am wrong about this but....
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Nancy Marilyn Gould

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2013, 01:15:17 PM »

Matt:
I like to think that if Mr. M is wrong and TIGHAR wins that Mr. M will then be required to pay all of TIGHAR's legal expenses and maybe additional damages.  But even if this draws away some cash, it may delay the research, but it won't stop it. 

I don't see how this could taint TIGHAR in the eyes of the general public.  I know we keep hearing these stories about high school students who can't name the President of the U.S., but does anybody (other than a few conspiracy theorists, and of course, Mr. M himself) seriously believe that AE has actually been found and that there's been some kind of secret coverup?  Besides, most people love a good David and Goliath story...This could actually end up helping TIGHAR!  You can't buy publicity like this!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 01:23:48 PM by Nancy Marilyn Gould »
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2013, 01:49:24 PM »

Ric and Tim,

Please give the following some consideration.

To put an end to all these current legal issues why not form a “joint venture” solution to the ultimate objective of both parties (Mr. Mellon/TIGHAR) i.e. finding the plane.

Value of a JV to Mr. Mellon:  If the plane is found where he believes it to be and the assorted artifacts are where he believes them to be and if something identifiable is recovered Mr. Mellon would be free to negotiate with the Republic of Kiribati to exploit the findings.

Value of a JV to TIGHAR:  Conserves its cash contributions to its mission of finding the aircraft rather then defending itself in court.  If the aircraft is found, regardless the source of preliminary evidence, TIGHAR will still have the satisfaction that its scientific approach to the search proved to be effective and precedent setting within the archeological community.

The foregoing idea of a “joint venture” solution to a rather complicated situation is strongly recommended by this writer and perhaps others as well.

Ted Campbell
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Tim Mellon

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2013, 02:12:41 PM »

Tim
Since we are being civil here, I wonder (if it doesn't interfere in some way with your legal action) if you could post an image or two that you feel is the best proof of the presence of AE or the electra in the videos or even you could tell me which message in the lengthy video analysis threads had those images.  I just want to get a better feel for what the dispute is based upon.

Thanks

Can't, Matt: I fully respect Ric's prohibition since 12 January 2013 against any further discussion of underwater images.

And, as you surmise, there are further legal constraints against same.



Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
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