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In Reply #24 to the "Summary of Debris" thread, there is a scale for the picture of the scallop shell.

 2 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 5 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 8 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
13 centimeters
- 1 (6.3%)
18 centimeters
- 3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 15


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Author Topic: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video  (Read 359250 times)

Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #165 on: December 17, 2012, 09:05:08 AM »

This all makes good common sense to me. Good thinking.

From having been on the reef, I can report there is no shortage of potholes that could cause this type of damage.
Tim
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Bob Lanz

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #166 on: December 17, 2012, 09:37:22 AM »

Tim,

As a pilot, and having seen the reef, would you land an Electra L10-E on the reef gear up or down?
Doc
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #167 on: December 17, 2012, 10:08:36 AM »

Tim,

As a pilot, and having seen the reef, would you land an Electra L10-E on the reef gear up or down?

If the radio were essential to my survival, as it was for hers (she may have thought), then gear down. Otherwise, probably gear up, unless I had thoroughly inspected the reef beforehand. YMMV.
Tim
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #168 on: December 17, 2012, 10:42:23 AM »

Ok-----so we know the reef has some problems, because you guys have walked on it. Bob makes a very good point, because I would think that you probably cant see any of those issues by doing a low approach. Same issue for a lagoon landing. So----risk the gear down, so you can use the radio and engine combination, and possibly be able to take off again, OR risk tearing the gear off, or punchering a tire on rollout due to something on the reef.
Guess you would have had to have been there at the time before you could make that decision.
Tom
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #169 on: December 17, 2012, 11:37:21 AM »

I hate this speculation stuff! Ric is going to scold me BUT________ IF on roll-out, she did contact something that blew the left main, and on deflation, the gear was damaged, or torn off the airframe, that might account for the odd looking thing we cal the Bevington Object. We are trying to visualize what it is supposed to be, not what it is NOW.

Another thought---how many of you would attempt the landing she did---not know what was there? It wasnt a grass strip, or even a nice asphalt runway. Might look good from a low pass perspective, but you cant tell alot at 10 feet, and 90 knots. Some of yo pilots weigh in on that. OOPS----wrong thread-----Tom
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #170 on: December 17, 2012, 12:08:19 PM »

A couple of quick reminders for the speculators. 

- We've surveyed the reef where we think the landing took place.  There are no pot holes. There are classic spurs and grooves out where the waves break at low tide but the plane couldn't be out there and send radio messages.

- We have a contemporary example of an aircraft similar in size to the Electra making a successful wheels-down landing on a reef.
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Dan Swift

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #171 on: December 17, 2012, 12:38:07 PM »

And what we know about AE's personality, based on her flight history and the amount of $$ and reputation riding on this world flight, she wouldn't have wanted to give up on completing the flight.  Gear up....it's over. 
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« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 07:26:19 AM by Dan Swift »
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JNev

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #172 on: December 17, 2012, 12:43:05 PM »

A couple of quick reminders for the speculators. 

- We've surveyed the reef where we think the landing took place.  There are no pot holes. There are classic spurs and grooves out where the waves break at low tide but the plane couldn't be out there and send radio messages.

- We have a contemporary example of an aircraft similar in size to the Electra making a successful wheels-down landing on a reef.

How I wish we could go after that old Croydon - because it is a 'known' - AND

- Her remnants may just be down that slope somewhere, and
- Finding out how it came to rest might give us a model of what to go after.

AND -

The idea is of course ridiculously expensive for little more than to establish a possible 'model'.

But what do we have to relish if we can't dream a bit? 

Now if those guys had vanished but we had some fair reasons to believe they might have come to rest on that reef before being washed away...

That's one of the differences in this whole game, isn't it?  Mystery has such a flavor, gotta love it.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #173 on: December 17, 2012, 01:38:52 PM »

There are no pot holes.

But Amelia Earhart wouldn't have known that.

If there were potholes, as there are on the other South side of the NC, even at low tide they would have been filled with water and therefore appeared flat.
Tim
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #174 on: December 17, 2012, 02:03:44 PM »

Thats true Ric, and thats true Tim. AE wouldnt have known what Ric and others found out on previous expeditions.
This is the wrong thread for this---maybe someone could put it where it belongs.
tom
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John Joseph Barrett

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #175 on: December 17, 2012, 04:07:46 PM »

Actually Tom, I think it's still ok here, a slight twist off course but related to my post about how the possible fender might have gotten inverted. Ric, no potholes doesn't mean that there wasn't a chunk of coral or other debris that could have been run over and holed the tire. Flailing tire shred can tear up metal and could easily have inverted the fender. Now, back to our regularily scheduled thread about possible debris in the 2010 video......   LTM-  John
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #176 on: December 18, 2012, 07:13:47 AM »

LOL---yep---gear up wold make a bad day even worse
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Will Hatchell

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #177 on: December 18, 2012, 08:54:52 AM »

Flailing tire shred can tear up metal and could easily have inverted the fender.

The left landing gear assembly (with inverted fender) would then be expected to match Glickman's observed characteristics found in the photo analysis of the Bevington Object, correct? Does Glickman's analysis in fact suggest the fender inversion?  :-\



Hatch

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Bob Lanz

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #178 on: December 18, 2012, 09:25:25 AM »

Flailing tire shred can tear up metal and could easily have inverted the fender.

The left landing gear assembly (with inverted fender) would then be expected to match Glickman's observed characteristics found in the photo analysis of the Bevington Object, correct? Does Glickman's analysis in fact suggest the fender inversion?  :-\

No it doesn't Hatch, nor does it represent an inverted gear of an Electra L10-E.  The components in that presentation are positionally incorrect and where he placed the retracting gear on the tire is impossible as it would have been underwater on the strut.
Doc
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Will Hatchell

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #179 on: December 18, 2012, 09:29:12 AM »

Flailing tire shred can tear up metal and could easily have inverted the fender.

The left landing gear assembly (with inverted fender) would then be expected to match Glickman's observed characteristics found in the photo analysis of the Bevington Object, correct? Does Glickman's analysis in fact suggest the fender inversion?  :-\

No it doesn't Hatch, nor does it represent an inverted gear of an Electra L10-E.  The components in that presentation are positionally incorrect and where he placed the retracting gear on the tire is impossible as it would have been underwater on the strut.

Thanks for the clarification, Bob. That's what I recalled but wasn't sure and hadn't taken time to review all posts re Bevington. So, that leaves more intrigue...



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