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In Reply #24 to the "Summary of Debris" thread, there is a scale for the picture of the scallop shell.

 2 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 5 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 8 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
13 centimeters
- 1 (6.3%)
18 centimeters
- 3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 15


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Author Topic: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video  (Read 344309 times)

Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #135 on: December 14, 2012, 12:03:55 PM »

    "Know, stranger, that all you will confront is strange -
      and in your own image."



Fact can often be stranger than fiction.
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richie conroy

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #136 on: December 14, 2012, 12:52:59 PM »

Hi All

In the attached images

Object A, Can anyone else see the word RAISE ?

Object B, Looks like a carved letter D

Object C, Appears  to be box like object with tube coming from it ?

Thank's Richie

 
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Will Hatchell

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #137 on: December 14, 2012, 01:04:00 PM »

Hatch, I would characterize what is up-slope of the Navigation station and WC as kind of a mish-mash: fuel tank, battery, landing gear, and who knows what else.  Nothing is orderly and readily mapable.

Then, considering the types of items found (generally small, personal effects, in addition to the bodies being found together), it would appear that the fuselage moved relatively intact downslope, beginning to break up on its way down, and the positions of those items relative to one another (including the mishmash, landing gear, fuel tank, etc.) are entirely what one would expect, would you agree, Tim? The fuselage may or may not have hung up for any length of time on the higher shelf before sliding on down?

Hatch

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Chris Johnson

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #138 on: December 14, 2012, 01:12:52 PM »

If and thats a BIG IF there were two sets of remains where does that leave the casterway?
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #139 on: December 14, 2012, 01:41:45 PM »

Chris----I would say that IF there IS 2 sets of remains, it 'probably isnt" the target we are looking for.
AGAIN----Identifyible evidence of NR16020, and not something the we dont know about.
Tom
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #140 on: December 14, 2012, 01:54:46 PM »

Remains don't seem likly anyway unless enclosed in sediment or other conditions such as found on the Mary Rose or Hunley.  No visible remains with the titanic, Bismark or Hood, just clues such as boots and gas masks.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #141 on: December 14, 2012, 01:56:47 PM »

Then, considering the types of items found (generally small, personal effects, in addition to the bodies being found together), it would appear that the fuselage moved relatively intact downslope, beginning to break up on its way down, and the positions of those items relative to one another (including the mishmash, landing gear, fuel tank, etc.) are entirely what one would expect, would you agree, Tim? The fuselage may or may not have hung up for any length of time on the higher shelf before sliding on down?

Hatch, the scenario that keeps coming to mind for me is one whereby the aircraft, because of an extra high tide or swell or storm surge, floats off of the reef westward, then gradually looses boyancy when the fuel tanks take on salt water through their air vents. It starts to sink straight down, picking up speed as the air tanks are crushed by increasing water pressure, then breaks up only when it hits the bottom at 800 feet, leaving most of the internal contents in relatively the same proximity to one another. But then, it's just a guess.
Tim
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Will Hatchell

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #142 on: December 14, 2012, 02:38:02 PM »

Sounds plausible and I have no problem at all with the mechanics of washing off the reef and sinking, however, for the life of me, I can't understand what accounted for it locking up on that steep slope and not continuing on down. That's a steep underwater slope!  :o



Hatch

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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #143 on: December 14, 2012, 03:06:18 PM »

If and thats a BIG IF there were two sets of remains where does that leave the casterway?

It is certainly possible that Fred, injured as he seems to have been, may never have left the aircraft; and Amelia may have left only once or twice to scout out the shoreline. She was, after all, tending to the radio transmissions when the water was low, at least for the first three days. And it is no easy trek over those very slippery and pocked reef surfaces for the 50 yards (or so) to shore, even at low water. If she couldn't help Fred from the plane, it stands to reason that they would stay together in the relative safety of the aircraft, just hoping to be seen by a rescue plane. (All, of course, IMHO).
 
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 03:09:16 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Dan Kelly

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #144 on: December 14, 2012, 05:40:39 PM »

Hi All

In the attached images

Object A, Can anyone else see the word RAISE ?

Object B, Looks like a carved letter D

Object C, Appears  to be box like object with tube coming from it ?

Thank's Richie

 

No.
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Dan Kelly

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #145 on: December 14, 2012, 05:49:42 PM »

If and thats a BIG IF there were two sets of remains where does that leave the casterway?

It is certainly possible that Fred, injured as he seems to have been, may never have left the aircraft; and Amelia may have left only once or twice to scout out the shoreline. She was, after all, tending to the radio transmissions when the water was low, at least for the first three days. And it is no easy trek over those very slippery and pocked reef surfaces for the 50 yards (or so) to shore, even at low water. If she couldn't help Fred from the plane, it stands to reason that they would stay together in the relative safety of the aircraft, just hoping to be seen by a rescue plane. (All, of course, IMHO).

Mr Mellon does your confident identification of the skeletons on the reef mean that you are definitely ruling out Dr Burns' identification of the castaway skeleton as possibly being Earhart, which would also exclude the associated objects found at and around the Seven Site which have been proposed as evidence of Earhart being on Nikumaroro. That includes the camp fire debris and the claims by professional anthropologists that some of the fish and clam remains indicate eating by non-islanders. Does that then mean that you agree with folks who have posted disputing the links as unproven.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #146 on: December 14, 2012, 06:14:03 PM »

Mr Mellon does your confident identification of the skeletons on the reef mean that you are definitely ruling out Dr Burns' identification of the castaway skeleton as possibly being Earhart, which would also exclude the associated objects found at and around the Seven Site which have been proposed as evidence of Earhart being on Nikumaroro. That includes the camp fire debris and the claims by professional anthropologists that some of the fish and clam remains indicate eating by non-islanders. Does that then mean that you agree with folks who have posted disputing the links as unproven.

"Female Caucasian" and "possibly being Earhart" are not quite the same (not withstanding a prior expert opinion of male non-Caucasian). I also seem to recall that the administrator Gerald Gallagher set up a weekend retreat somewhere down-island (I won't speculate how he may have used the rouge...).

 My eyes believe more what they see than they believe reports with hypothetical conclusions, so I would sum it up: 90% skeletons, 10% circumstantial evidence. My own view only, of course.
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 06:29:46 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Dan Kelly

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #147 on: December 14, 2012, 07:23:04 PM »


"Female Caucasian" and "possibly being Earhart" are not quite the same (not withstanding a prior expert opinion of male non-Caucasian). I also seem to recall that the administrator Gerald Gallagher set up a weekend retreat somewhere down-island (I won't speculate how he may have used the rouge...).

 My eyes believe more what they see than they believe reports with hypothetical conclusions, so I would sum it up: 90% skeletons, 10% circumstantial evidence. My own view only, of course.

Thank you Mr Mellon - who do you think is responsible for the Seven Site objects? 
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #148 on: December 15, 2012, 12:50:00 AM »

To me "circumstantial" does mean "unproven" in the stricktest sense. But other explanations like flotsam and/or jetsam from the aircraft may be involved. Or Gallagher, as mentioned. Or even Coast Guard (or their "invitees"). Others may propose additional possibilities.
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 12:51:34 AM by Tim Mellon »
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John Joseph Barrett

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2012, 06:47:46 AM »

There is some irony that the items recovered at the 7 site may indeed have no connection to our lost heroes, or maybe some other unucky soul found them washed ashore and put them to use there before dying. The short time frame between the disappearance and the colonization does seem to limit that possibility. There are myriad explanations as to what could have happened. IF, and I agree with Chris, it is a BIG IF, that is wreckage of the Electra with crew still aboard, then the remains found at the 7 site are someone else altogether. Going down with the plane would seem to fit with Betty's notebook and the comments about rising water, needing to get out, and putative struggles/argument with Fred. That is, of course, if you accept the notebook as legit. Having policed for a bit over 23 years I've seen quite a few investigations take strange twists and turns on the way to the truth, and those are of recent occurances. 75 years later? Yeah, there will be twists and turns here too. For the record, I see possible remains, including the key, as Mr. Mellon points out. Is that what they are? I don't know as I don't know what human remains do in those conditions. I wouldn't bet either way without knowing that. It does present an interesting twist though. I wonder how many more there will be?  LTM- Who always loved a good puzzle.  -John
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