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Author Topic: NIKU VII  (Read 211465 times)

Tom Swearengen

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #255 on: July 27, 2012, 11:40:01 AM »

I see that now----I forgot how to get to the deck logs. Found it!
Thanks---gee it woul dbe EASIER if they woudl just tell us something!
i know, I know---delayed gratification
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #256 on: July 28, 2012, 01:36:49 AM »

I see that now----I forgot how to get to the deck logs. Found it!
Thanks---gee it woul dbe EASIER if they woudl just tell us something!
i know, I know---delayed gratification

This is the current wording for the 21st -

Seas are a bit rough but we’re still averaging 9 knots pounding our way homeward. We crossed the equator at 22:05Z (12:05 KOK). In this location, the equator is also the boundary of Kiribati and, therefore, an east/west dogleg in the International Dateline. Although we have stayed on Hawaii time for convenience, officially today was the 22nd before we crossed the equator. July 22 is team member Tim Mellon’s birthday so he has now had one birthday this year and he’ll get another one tomorrow.

In addition to catching up on sleep, everyone is compiling and organizing data, video imagery, and still photos. The Discovery guys are reviewing and editing their footage and, in some cases, shooting additional material to fill gaps.

We won’t actually know what we might have on either the sonar data or on the HD video until some time after we get back to the States. There is a mountain of material to get through, and real time isn’t anything like sufficient to see and understand all the images and information we’ve collected. So the results of the expedition are truly not known. No big shiny silver airplane, obvious to all, but the data on the various storage devices may hold treasures.


The original was a lot less upbeat, in fact rather pessimistic. This current version appeared a few hours after the original without explanation - the original appears to have been the one that some media picked up.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #257 on: July 28, 2012, 10:57:33 AM »

I recieved this article today via a link e-mailed to me by one of my colleagues who works for the ESA on consultancy basis. Having read through it I noticed it relates to Data and information gathered and, the analysis of said data and information.
It's one of the big questions: Are we alone on this blue marble or is there life elsewhere in the cosmos? To shed some light, astronomers are searching for habitable worlds circling far-off stars.

A team has now published updated evidence for a planet that could be the most Earth-like yet. According to the US Planetary Habitability Laboratory, it would be the fifth potentially habitable world known outside our Solar System.
So what do we know about these five Earth-like planets, and how likely is it that they could support life?


The discovery of Gliese 581g was announced in September 2010 by a US-led team. But as soon as they made the announcement, doubts began to surface. The team at the Geneva observatory which had discovered all four other planets around the star Gliese 581 failed to detect it in their own data. However, the original discoverers of 581g have now published an analysis using a greater amount of data to provide more promising evidence for its existence. [/b]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19008908

Life on another planet? An Earth like planet? The closest yet to being an Earth like planet?
No, it doesn't prove anything except, the benefits and advantages of studying all the data and information that you have collected, thoroughly over the period of time needed to extract the details.
This must be the place
 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 01:00:39 PM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #258 on: July 28, 2012, 06:38:53 PM »


Life on another planet? An Earth like planet? The closest yet to being an Earth like planet?
No, it doesn't prove anything except, the benefits and advantages of studying all the data and information that you have collected, thoroughly over the period of time needed to extract the details.

So are you saying that Amelia was abducted by aliens from another world or that data should be analysed?  ;D

Of course analysis is required, but I do rather hope that we are not descending into a situation as I mentioned once before which is the making of one of those dreadful "scientific" documentaries where some narrator with a deep voice intones about all the possibilities that said data indicates but finishes with "and we will have to wait until next whenever for the final pieces in this puzzle". That is not science or history, that is soap opera.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #259 on: July 28, 2012, 09:46:56 PM »

I do rather hope that we are not descending into a situation as I mentioned once before which is the making of one of those dreadful "scientific" documentaries where some narrator with a deep voice intones about all the possibilities that said data indicates but finishes with "and we will have to wait until next whenever for the final pieces in this puzzle". That is not science or history, that is soap opera.

That is a fact-free belief--an opinion.  It is not based on the area where you have credentials.

It seems to me that much of science has to wait for "final pieces" of puzzles to be found so that they can be fit into place.  Consider, for example, the work being done on dark matter and dark energy.  There is no shortcut to solving the problems for which those theories are suggested answers.

It is not unusual in research for one to be incapable of predicting when the work will be complete.  TIGHAR is not manufacturing data to fit its hypothesis.  It is testing its theory by searching where one would expect to find evidence if the hypothesis is true.  There is no "science clock" by which one can measure how long the search will take.
LTM,

           Marty
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #260 on: July 29, 2012, 10:14:53 AM »

Well, as the name of the channel implies, Discovery. What were you expecting it to be called, Solved?
And, no sign of J R Ewing, yet ;)
This must be the place
 
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Bill Roe

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #261 on: July 29, 2012, 02:20:56 PM »


Marty's points are point-on.


You know, respectfully I must disagree.

Marty is comparing science related to solving a curiosity as opposed to solving a science that will benefit mankind.  The Discovery Channel is entertainment.  And entertainment directed at a particular segment of the population.  They, as other entertainment venues, are profit driven.  And they'll exploit a subject just as handily as the Playboy Channel.

{Um......I'm trying to remember what the Playboy Channel is about....... ;)}
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #262 on: July 29, 2012, 03:24:40 PM »

Marty is comparing science related to solving a curiosity as opposed to solving a science that will benefit mankind.

By what science have you arrived at the conclusion that the "curiosity" is insoluble?
LTM,

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Bill Roe

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #263 on: July 29, 2012, 03:38:10 PM »

Marty is comparing science related to solving a curiosity as opposed to solving a science that will benefit mankind.

By what science have you arrived at the conclusion that the "curiosity" is insoluble?

HUH?  Now you're doing to me what you've done to Malcom {comprehension 101}.  Show me where I clearly stated that a curiosity is unsolvable. In particular trying to find out what happened to AE and her airplane - a curiosity. 

I was merely .... oh, never mind.  I'm not about to argue a ridiculous point.  Read my post - no interpretation necessary.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #264 on: July 29, 2012, 04:44:25 PM »

I'm not about to argue a ridiculous point.  Read my post - no interpretation necessary.

I agree that the point you made is ridiculous.

I don't agree with you that the source of funding changes the essential nature of investigation.

If we don't have all of the pieces of a puzzle, whether the question is about satisfying curiosity about a historical event or satisfying curiosity about the cosmos, it does not make sense to declare that it is unscientific to want to find the missing pieces of the puzzle. 
LTM,

           Marty
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Bill Roe

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #265 on: July 29, 2012, 07:31:33 PM »

Thanks Jeff -

"Looking for a needle in a haystack" - and that's the only thing you'll find.  Search hard for the needle and you'll miss all the hay around it.

Hopefully that's what'll happen when they get back - that is, take a look at the hay.

I'm curious about AE and her airplane also.  However, I'm skeptical that we have the proper or advanced enough technology to answer the question definitively. 

I'm also a good enough businessman and planner to know when I'm wasting assets.  At the same time, I'm not part of the TIGHAR inner circle thus it's impossible to determine, fer sure, that assets are not at their most productive.  Yet, from what I've read here, it could be questionable.

I've also got enough time in the air under difficult circumstances that weighs my opinion toward Malcom's - she went down in deep water and was lost.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #266 on: July 29, 2012, 10:10:32 PM »

I've also got enough time in the air under difficult circumstances that weighs my opinion toward Malcom's - she went down in deep water and was lost.

I think that you may be thinking of LaPook's hypothesis (box search, then splashed-and-sank).

So far as I know, Malcolm has not made a commitment to any of the splashed-and-sank scenarios.
LTM,

           Marty
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Bill Roe

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #267 on: July 29, 2012, 11:34:20 PM »

I've also got enough time in the air under difficult circumstances that weighs my opinion toward Malcom's - she went down in deep water and was lost.

I think that you may be thinking of LaPook's hypothesis (box search, then splashed-and-sank).

So far as I know, Malcolm has not made a commitment to any of the splashed-and-sank scenarios.

This is where I remembered reading - just forgot the context.....

I offer another purely hypothetical scenario, and I stress hypothetical because as we all know I have a quite serious reluctance to accept the validity of much of the cited physical evidence, however in fairness it is one that bears consideration.

The Electra ran out of fuel and came down at sea and sank. Either Earhart and Noonan or both of them made it into the life raft which eventually drifted ashore at Nikumaroro. The survivor lasted long enough to die on the island which explains the skeleton, and also the lack of any wreckage so far found - it might explain possible personal items like the freckle cream and the compact. Those being in a bag hastily grabbed as the plane sank.

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Malcolm McKay

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #268 on: July 30, 2012, 12:01:35 AM »


This is where I remembered reading - just forgot the context.....

I offer another purely hypothetical scenario, and I stress hypothetical because as we all know I have a quite serious reluctance to accept the validity of much of the cited physical evidence, however in fairness it is one that bears consideration.

The Electra ran out of fuel and came down at sea and sank. Either Earhart and Noonan or both of them made it into the life raft which eventually drifted ashore at Nikumaroro. The survivor lasted long enough to die on the island which explains the skeleton, and also the lack of any wreckage so far found - it might explain possible personal items like the freckle cream and the compact. Those being in a bag hastily grabbed as the plane sank.


It is a possible variation on the Nikumaroro hypothesis. Overall I am remaining pretty neutral as far as Earhart's fate is concerned, but if I was asked on peril of instant extinction if I didn't provide an opinion I would take splashed and sank as the most likely fate. Simply because some of the hypothetical gymnastics involved in getting her down on some searchable island are of Olympic standard.

But we will see. They are going back to East New Britain in October, TIGHAR have pictures to analyse, Nauticos are continuing their efforts and NASA is about to put another ROV down on Mars which might beam back pics of the Electra and the Martian museum in which it is contained.   
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #269 on: July 30, 2012, 12:22:16 AM »


I agree that the point you made is ridiculous.

I don't agree with you that the source of funding changes the essential nature of investigation.

If we don't have all of the pieces of a puzzle, whether the question is about satisfying curiosity about a historical event or satisfying curiosity about the cosmos, it does not make sense to declare that it is unscientific to want to find the missing pieces of the puzzle.

An interesting and not particularly value free interpretation of what Bob posted Marty. The origin of funds in scientific research is often of immense importance, I trust you have read Naomi Oreskes & Erik M. Conway Merchants of Doubt. If you have ever been employed as a consultant in industries such as mining, as I have, then you will be aware of how tricky it is to maintain balance and objectivity. Invariably some people from both sides will try and influence results.   
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