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Author Topic: Noonan's family tree  (Read 16669 times)

Neil Harrison

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Noonan's family tree
« on: May 26, 2012, 01:26:07 PM »

As a newbie, can someone provide me with some clarity about what is known (or reasonably certain) about Fred Noonan's parents and ancestry?  On various documents on this site, his mother is variously listed as Catherine or Helen Egan, born in London, Essex or Norwich, probably somewhere around 1862.

I'm a UK based amateur family historian and I would be happy to put in some time to try to explore Noonan's UK family line for a possible living relative to provide a DNA sample.  However, I really need to know what's actually known (from US Census and other records) before I kick off.


Neil...
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Noonan's family tree
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 01:51:58 PM »

This must be the place
 
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Neil Harrison

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Re: Noonan's family tree
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2012, 02:04:36 PM »

Jeff - I've read this, but it contradicts other documents on the site.  It's difficult to work out which has precedence or which is more reliable.  Also, the footnote of details about FN's mother just say "Birth record, Essex county, UK" without any other information which could be used to track her.  I've picked up that there have been one/some abortive lines of enquiry, so it would be useful to know what premise they worked on.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Noonan's family tree
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2012, 03:12:37 PM »

Why not contact Ric at TIGHAR and offer your services.  If you've got what he needs then i'm sure he would snap your hand off.
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Andrew M McKenna

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Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2012, 08:02:40 AM »

Linda

Welcome.

Let me see if I can find out who on EPAC has been taking lead on the Noonan Family research.

Andrew
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Linda Lorda

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Re: Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2012, 09:17:20 AM »

Andrew,
I appreciate that. I have a lot to contribute, new info and ideas.
Linda
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2012, 12:33:18 PM »

I am a Professional Genealogist and my expertise is in just the sort of research needed to find DNA reference samples for Fred Noonan. Not knowing exactly how to volunteer, I send off a couple of emails that have so far gone unanswered. I have found various information all over the website and forum but I doubt that I have found it all. Is there a go-to person for Noonan family research?

I believe that our best genealogist is not active in the Forum.

Andrew's inquiry to EPAC may get his attention.

I know that some families are (understandably) sensitive about having their family tree diagrammed in public.

I don't know whether there is anything from your research that you can or would share in the Forum.

But I figured it would be better to create this thread for these questions, rather than following up on them in the "New Member Introduction" area.
LTM,

           Marty
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Linda Lorda

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Re: Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 10:25:57 PM »

Marty,
There are numerous trees already posted on Ancestry.com and I assume other such sites as well. Most have inaccuracies. There is one tree posted that has valid information. So, a portion is already "public". 

I also noticed that the Tighar website has a genealogy/history report for Noonan compiled by a Tighar group and wondered if that group might still be involved in the research. I was hoping to connect with others who might still be working on it. I love the collaborative spirit here.

I do have additional information that I have not seen anywhere else at this point and believe that living persons can be found to provide a Noonan DNA reference.

One more point. DNA can be extracted from the saliva beneath the stamps and envelope closures. Noonan sent several letters that still exist. If any two of them from different locations from the last flight match each other (and are not AE's) then they are almost certainly Noonan's...
Linda
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2012, 09:30:57 AM »

There are numerous trees already posted on Ancestry.com and I assume other such sites as well. Most have inaccuracies. There is one tree posted that has valid information. So, a portion is already "public". 

OK.  Would you be willing to identify the one that has "valid information"?

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I also noticed that the Tighar website has a genealogy/history report for Noonan compiled by a Tighar group and wondered if that group might still be involved in the research. I was hoping to connect with others who might still be working on it. I love the collaborative spirit here.

Is this the genealogy/history report for Noonan that you mean?

Andrew was on vacation last week.  I'll see if I can dig out the replies to his question to EPAC about the Noonan project and send it to you in e-mail.

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I do have additional information that I have not seen anywhere else at this point and believe that living persons can be found to provide a Noonan DNA reference.

Splendid!

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One more point. DNA can be extracted from the saliva beneath the stamps and envelope closures. Noonan sent several letters that still exist. If any two of them from different locations from the last flight match each other (and are not AE's) then they are almost certainly Noonan's...

Makes sense.  I don't know how many envelopes from the last flight are still extant.
LTM,

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Linda Lorda

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Re: Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2012, 12:51:01 PM »

Marty,
The best Fred Noonan tree (IMHO) that is public on Ancestry is Jerry Hamilton's.

The very best way to have a reference DNA sample for Noonan is from Noonan himself, in other words something like the saliva behind stamps, assuming they were licked rather than wet with water. As long as the stamps have not been removed, the DNA has been "protected" from contamination and most likely protected from heat, moisture, etc. The need for multiple samples would be to eliminate the possibility that someone else licked the stamps. As long as one sample was from the last flight (and did not belong to AE), a DNA match with any other Noonan sent stamp/envelope would still work.

Having the above DNA as a reference is far better than DNA from a distant relative. Even with ironclad sourcing for the genealogy, there is still a chance for error, even following maternal lines only.

Even so, I have just found someone yesterday, that I believe is a MtDNA match to Noonan. The links between generations need much closer scrutiny, however.
Linda
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2012, 01:01:56 PM »

The best Fred Noonan tree (IMHO) that is public on Ancestry is Jerry Hamilton's.

Would you please provide a link to that tree for other genealogists to follow?  (My link in that question shows you how to insert links into a post in this Forum.)

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The very best way to have a reference DNA sample for Noonan is from Noonan himself, in other words something like the saliva behind stamps, assuming they were licked rather than wet with water.

That makes sense.

But this reminds me of the recipe for tiger soup, which begins: "First, catch two tigers.  Let one go.  Then gut, skin, and dice the other one..."

If TIGHAR ever finds anything on Niku that might have Fred's DNA on or in it, the rest of the research will be a piece of cake.  The hard part is finding some of Fred's DNA in the wild.
LTM,

           Marty
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Ricker H Jones

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Re: Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2012, 02:09:50 PM »

Ric obtained several letters Noonan had written to Helen Day from Jim Bible for DNA testing.  (EPAC Jan. 30, 2009).  With the state of the art of DNA testing at that time, I believe they were unable to extract any usable DNA. 
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 02:17:11 PM by Ricker H Jones »
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Linda Lorda

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Re: Genealogy: Fred Noonan
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2012, 02:42:24 PM »

Too bad.
Over time the technology might have been able to obtain usable DNA.
Linda
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Noonan's family tree
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2012, 02:04:29 PM »

Someone asked yesterday whether AE's DNA had been sequenced and registered with "Federal authorities."  I can't find that posting today, but I hope the person reads this.  It's not specifically about Noonan's DNA, but I wonder if they shouldn't include him in the project that's being reported about ...

... Today, National Geographic has a news item online that speaks about a current project to look for AE's DNA on postage stamps.
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Internet-marketing executive Justin Long of Vancouver is partly funding a Simon Fraser University project to collect Earhart's DNA from envelopes for potential matching against any human remains that might be discovered.

(See "Amelia Earhart Spit Samples to Help Lick Mystery?")

LTM,

Bruce
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richie conroy

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Re: Noonan's family tree
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2012, 03:41:10 PM »

I will ask my uncle, how far back he has got on our family tree as my ancestors originate from county mayo Ireland, And if you go on Google or gen forums and type Conroy/Noonan there appears to be a few connections

Worth a try i suppose 
We are an echo of the past


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