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Author Topic: The Dole Derby  (Read 121942 times)

Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #165 on: March 24, 2012, 12:37:04 PM »


Dr. Jim
 "Given that Hawaii is about 2556 miles east of Gardner"

I believe you have the numbers mixed up.  The 2556 statute miles (2222 nautical miles) is the distance from Lae, New Guinea to Howland Island i.e. the AE/FN leg.  Gardner is about 404sm (350 nm) SSE of Howland. Hawaii is about 1900nm north and slightly west of Howland, I think.
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Heath Smith

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #166 on: March 24, 2012, 12:59:12 PM »


Found this today in the news, Tsunami-tossed boat spotted off western Canada.

Although not related to the topic, I thought it was interesting none the less.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #167 on: March 24, 2012, 04:24:45 PM »


Occam's Razor in Latin (thanks to Marty Moleski) is:
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
Which translates into:
Entities must  not be multiplied beyond necessities.    KISS
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #168 on: March 24, 2012, 05:07:03 PM »


And from an article (What is Occam's Razor?) found by plugging the Latin Phrase into my browser, comes this:

"The final word is of unknown origin, although it's often attributed to Einstein, himself a master of the quotable one liner:

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." "(emphasis mine, hjh)
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Gary LaPook

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #169 on: March 24, 2012, 05:55:08 PM »


gary

mmm  32.3 inches per pace, I wiuld guess your height as  5'-9 1/2" to 5;-10".  ??
You're off by half an inch.

gl
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Gary LaPook

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #170 on: March 24, 2012, 06:15:47 PM »


O.K. let me make sure I've got this right. You have a canoe that is 18 feet long. You throw out a bobber well in front of the canoe (so that you can establish a steady speed prior to reaching it.) You then paddle steadily past the bobber and it takes 4 seconds for the bobber to move from the bow to the stern. You continue downstream a bit, turn around and then paddle steadily, using the same rhythem,  back upstream past the bobber and it again takes exactly 4 seconds to go past the bobber. So you are going 18 feet in 4 seconds, 4 and a half feet per second, 3 mph in each direction. Since there is no difference in the time and the speed I assume you would calculate zero current. But using your formula 18 feet divided by zero and then divided by 2 causes the dreaded "divide by zero error" on a computer since that is not allowed since the result of that operation is not defined. So it looks like my formula is better for this than yours. So with no current the times and the speeds will be the same, right?

gl
Harry, you didn't respond to my question, do I have it right?

gl
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #171 on: March 24, 2012, 06:41:43 PM »


Gary
Oh Goody, a binary possibility, just like AE's last words.  Either 5'-9" or 5'-10 1/2".  hmmm, 32.3 inch pace and mine is 30 inches  I'm 5'-8" so I'll refine my guess to 5'-9"  tada
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #172 on: March 24, 2012, 06:48:11 PM »


Gary
"...do I have it right?"

Let;s see, 18 feet each way, same time, i.e. same speed. conclsion no current.  Formula fails at zero current. Looks that way, unless I've missed the Catch 22.   hehe
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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #173 on: March 24, 2012, 09:44:50 PM »

Occam's Razor... Of course in times like these I look to the master of logic for inspiration, Sherlock Holmes,
"The Sign of the Four," 1890.  "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

Harry, I stand corrected, thank you. 
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 09:53:43 PM by Dr James Younghusband, D.C. »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #174 on: March 24, 2012, 09:58:08 PM »


Gary
So now we know that the current wasn't in the direction that we tested, say it was N/S, S/N

Now let's check out whether a current is flowing from E/W or W/E  same process.  Even though , had there been a current in that direction(s) during the first trial we would have noticed a different effect on the Bobber than on the canoe because of their different shapes and resronses to a side current.

At any rate, continuing our trials, hopefully not too many, if there were a current we would find it, speed and direction.  Question is what to do with that info?  They'd have to wait for Knope to get a fix to know where they were so they could plan where to go, prolly Hawaii.

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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #175 on: March 24, 2012, 10:04:26 PM »


Dr Jim
Not to worry, mate.   No offense intended, hopefully none taken.
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Gary LaPook

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #176 on: March 24, 2012, 10:21:50 PM »


Gary
"...do I have it right?"

Let;s see, 18 feet each way, same time, i.e. same speed. conclsion no current.  Formula fails at zero current. Looks that way, unless I've missed the Catch 22.   hehe
O.K., so I got the first example right, no difference in time going past the bobber means no current along that axis. (Let's keep in simple and only consider a current along the first axis.)

Now let's consider a case where there is a current. Same 18 foot canoe and procedure, only this time you have a 1 mph current moving in the direction of the first test run, you are traveling with the current on the first pass by the bobber. Since you are traveling with the current your speed is now 4 mph, 6 feet per second, so you pass the bobber in 3 seconds. Now you follow the same procedure, you continue a bit further, turn around and then paddle in the opposite direction against the current. What will the time be on this up current leg to pass the bobber?

gl

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John Ousterhout

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #177 on: March 25, 2012, 08:34:45 AM »

If I put a canoe in a swimming pool, and have a bobber, stop watch and ruler, Harry believes I'll be able to determine how fast the pool is moving with the earth and what direction it is moving through the universe?  Impossible.  Unlike light, water moves at variable rates in the universe, so the effect he's describing won't occur.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #178 on: March 25, 2012, 01:12:08 PM »


John O
In Latin  Reductio ad Absurdum

Why on earth would I put my canoe in a swimming pool. except maybe to practice my Eskimo Roll technique, or my cross-bow draw  stroke or any number of other strokes that come in handy when negotiating a river with fierce rapids?

However, the formula I posted is wrong and I have learned, again I might add, not to try to solve complex problems in my head w/o checking them out on paper.

Mea  Culpa.
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« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 02:27:05 PM by Harry Howe, Jr. »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: The Dole Derby
« Reply #179 on: March 25, 2012, 02:04:13 PM »


On Occam's Razor, here's how my favorite Physics Prof taught us to approach a problem:  Start at the beginning, work your way thru the middle, and when ya get to the end, Stop.

Kinda like the one-liner attributed to Einstein.
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