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Author Topic: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival  (Read 251704 times)

Tom Swearengen

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2012, 05:24:37 AM »

Hi Andrew---since youve been diving over there-----give us your inpressions of the reef----
Tom
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2012, 09:43:17 AM »


Chris
Excellent post   and food for much thought.
Unfortunately, we know very little, if anything, about what they did but we can certainly circulate our ideas about what we would do as a castaway.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2012, 10:56:33 AM »


Andrew
Relative to night fishing for lobster, crayfish, etc.
The Luke Field inventory listed several flashlights and spare batteries.

Anyone know whether there would be enough moisture in the things that could be caught and eaten that might stave off the effects of dehydration in the absence of fresh water?

If not, and no rain water was collected, it might not be a coincidence that the radio messages stopped after 5/6 days, the time at which serious life-threatening effects of dehydration could be expected. 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2012, 11:21:23 AM »

I KNEW I should have paid more attention science class---but that was a LONG time ago.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2012, 12:05:33 PM »


I would spend the "heat of the day" time as sheltered as possible, including using the parachutes for hasty protection from the sun, and explore during the early evening and night for water, NC survivor camp (I know they wouldn't know it was there but the path from the NC to the camp might still be there),etc.
Flying  over at 1000 feet  on approach  to their landing they might have seen the pond and the seven site clearing and explored to them during the 5 nights that we  know they were alive (radio transmissions). Would have been what 3 miles or so? 
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2012, 12:39:26 PM »

Don't forget that the reason that the crew of the NC abandoned ship was because it caught fire and burned completely. Staying inside the ship or salvaging anything from the inside was, most likely, not possible.
Woody (former 3316R)
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« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 12:42:37 PM by Clarence W. Herndon »
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2012, 12:42:57 PM »


Yeah, who knows?  But if we use common sense approachs to what we might do, we might bracket whay they might have done.

For example, if there were two of us, would we split up, one stay at the plane and the other explore and look for water sources?
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2012, 12:51:28 PM »

Yeah, two of us might have done things differently, althought AE might have been a little more competent in survival areas than we give her credit for. On the first attempt the Luke Field inventory Listed several survival items including "fishing tackle". I also remember seeing a picture of her "deep sea fishing from a boat". Who knows?
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2012, 12:54:20 PM »

Also note that on two seperate occasions attempts to colonise Gardener Island were thwarted by the problem of insufficient freshwater supply...

"In 1856 Nikumaroro was claimed as "Kemins Island" by CA Williams & Co. of New London, Connecticut under the American Guano Islands Act. There is no record of guano deposits ever being exploited, however.[2] On 28 May 1892, the island was claimed by the United Kingdom during a call by HMS Curacoa. Almost immediately a license was granted to Pacific entrepreneur John T. Arundel for planting coconuts. Twenty-nine islanders were settled there and some structures with corrugated iron roofs constructed, but a severe drought resulted in the prompt failure of this project within a year. In 1916 it was leased to a Captain Allen, but remained uninhabited until 1938."
And
"On 1 December 1938, members of the British Pacific Islands Survey Expedition arrived to evaluate the island as a possible location for either seaplane landings or an airfield. On 20 December, more British officials arrived with 20 Gilbertese settlers in the last colonial expansion of the British Empire.[N 2] Efforts to clear land and plant coconuts were hindered by a profound lack of drinking water. By June 1939, a few wells had been successfully established and there were 58 I-Kiribati on Gardner, including 16 women and 26 children. The island's early supervisor and magistrate was Teng Koata whose wife, according to local legend, had an encounter with the goddess Manganibuka on a remote part of the island.[citation needed]
 
The British colonial officer, Gerald Gallagher, established a headquarters of the Phoenix Islands Settlement Scheme in the village located on the island's western end, on the south side of the largest entrance to the lagoon.[N 3] Wide coral-gravel streets and a parade ground were laid out and important structures included a thatched administration house, wood-frame cooperative store and a radio shack. Gallagher died and was buried on the island in 1941.[7] From 1944 through 1945 the United States Coast Guard operated a navigational LORAN station with 25 crewmen on the southeastern tip of Gardner, installing an antenna system, quonset huts and some smaller structures.[8] Only scattered debris remains on the site.
 
The island's population reached a high of approximately 100 by the mid-1950s. However, by the early 1960s, periodic drought and an unstable freshwater lens had thwarted the struggling colony. Its residents were evacuated to the Solomon Islands by the British in 1963 and by 1965 Gardner was officially uninhabited."

So, freshwater was always a problem, even with all the right equipment and regular visits from supply ships. Now, put two non-survival trained persons there and what are the chances of them succeeding where all others mentioned previously have failed? It's just a thought
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2012, 01:04:44 PM »


Jeff Victor
Thanks for that excellent post
It reinforces the point that the finding of fresh water was critical and very difficult, perhaps impossible, without a storm.
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LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2012, 01:34:27 PM »


Jeff Victor
Thanks for that excellent post
It reinforces the point that the finding of fresh water was critical and very difficult, perhaps impossible, without a storm.
Not impossible Harry but, you're going to burn up an awful lot of calories trying to get freshwater so, you will need to replace those calories as well, more turtle please? :)
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2012, 01:38:38 PM »

Chris, I agree with you. I hope further "finds" help us to better understand what really did happen.
Woody (former 3316R)
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2012, 05:27:13 PM »


Chris
Relative to "staying together" a story, I'll summarize.
Five of us were in 2 canoes with motors fishing in a wilderness lake in Northern Manitoba.  Afternoon squall came up.  My partner and I  beat tail for shore and made it Ok and waited out the storm.  Later went to our camp island and began dinner.  Noticed that our three buddies didn't get there  so we went looking.  Found one hanging onto his upturned canoe at the far end of the lake.  They had tipped over during squall.  It was October and he was suffering and nearly hypotermic.

We stripped him and got him into a sleeping bag near a big fire.   It was touch and go all night and when day broke we  geared up with a minimum of equipment and motored him out along the chain of lakes that we had flown over in a float plane (about 100 miles) when going in.  Took all day but we got him to a hospital in Flin Flon, Manitoba.  He survived but neither  we nor the RCMP ever found a trace of the other two or any of their gear.  Not fun to say the least.
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LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2012, 10:05:59 AM »


Chris
In our case I'm not sure and have thought a lot about, naturally considering the outcome.
Had we all been together, they might have followed us to shore and out of the squall.  Or, if they still tipped over we might have got them out of the water quickly and back to camp and heat right away,etc, etc.

Generally, I think it best to stay together.
We never went back in the fall, but did go back in spring severak times,  Never saw any trace of them,nor their gear or tackle.  They went down and drowned,  Sad experience.
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LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2012, 10:52:27 AM »


fter landing on Gardner, I think they would have done some trouble shooting on the radio (assuming that they had sent transmissions while flying SSE), finding and fixing the problem ( I'll have to look again at the  post loss radio catalog to see when the first credible call was sent out).

Then, depending on whether they had any water on the plane, I think that they went reconnoitering in the immediate area of the NC,and finding the path into the trees where the NC survivors camp was, looked it over.  It had been 8 years (12/29 to 7/37) so the path might have been grown over.

Personally, my opinion is that they never found water and suffered the terrible effects of dehydratioh and were in terrible shape by the time the Electra slid over the reef edge.  Thoughts?
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LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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