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Author Topic: Different island .. I got pictures.  (Read 18275 times)

Denise Kelsey

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2023, 09:33:15 PM »

I am suggesting Amalgamated Wireless in part using the Kanimbla may have maliciously sabotaged the time signal, relayed inaccurate telegrams, and intentionally jammed and or manipulated her attempts at RF communication.

And why, pray tell, would they do that?  What would be their motivation?
~ Denise
 
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Diego Vásquez

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2023, 10:13:24 PM »

I give you a thumbs up just for working DB Cooper into this. :D   I'm happy to see a young person working on this.  I'd be interested in knowing what piqued your interest in AE and the particulars of how you came across the photo.

I'd also be interested in where you found Wireless Weekly (is it available online?) and where you found the passenger schedules you mentioned. I just did a quick search of Pacific Islands Monthly, which lists most of the inter-island passenger liners in the region, and didn't see anything for the HMAS Kanimbla.  If it was a warship, why was it taking passengers?
I want to believe.

Diego V.
 
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Travis Nutsch

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2023, 10:43:21 PM »

I am suggesting Amalgamated Wireless in part using the Kanimbla may have maliciously sabotaged the time signal, relayed inaccurate telegrams, and intentionally jammed and or manipulated her attempts at RF communication.

And why, pray tell, would they do that?  What would be their motivation?

Possibly compelled to do so by the Japanese or possibly even George Putnam conspiring with Ernest Fisk of AMA(Amalgamated Wireless) pulling a publicity stunt to get rid of AE and do as he promised to make AE the most famous aviator of all time. 

Something else worth mentioning.

To me the first time I read the Chatter report it really seemed like Eric Chatter was hiding something.  Simplest explanation for this is they were worried they made a mistake and were just covering their ass but maybe they knew a mistake was made and were trying to hide the fact.  The longest section of his report is his explanation of all the details that went into getting the time signal when at the time Lae was as I understand it was a busy aviation hub location and this should have been a routine practice.  He was the first instrument(blind flying) flight instructor of Australia and never really got any recognition for it.  Perhaps out of jealousy and or even maybe he was an undercover misogynist.  He would have known how important it would be for her chronometer to be set correctly and exactly what it would do if it wasn't.  All of the details in the Callopy report are covered in the Chatter report as if one or the other had both reports infant of them to make sure there were no discrepancies because they didn't want to get blamed for her loss.  The way Chatter further elaborates beyond the Callopy report seems a little odd to me.  AE had dinner with Chatter and his wife at their home the night before she left and yet he doesn't include anything about this in the report at all.  I even think I remember Balfor(radio operator at Lae? I maybe have this mixed up) said somewhere that Eric Chatter(maybe it was actually someone else in charge?) had him shut down the airport radio communications after AE was a few hours gone and possibly for the next few days if I am remembering right and they were not immediately involved or communicated with during the search effort until later when Chatter was asked for his report.  4 months after AE disappeared Eric Chatter, the originator of instrument flying in Australia, "walked into a propeller."  Pretty sure I've seen this mis-stated by TIGHAR as years rather than months.  Possibly Chatter was conspiring with the Japanese and knew too much so they offed him?  Maybe someone found out and did it out of retaliation?  Or the boring possibility maybe he just screwed up and walked into a propeller.

Later George Putnam made a comment in a news report about how he felt reassured that the Chatter Report and Callopy report corroborated each other.  Maybe he said this to help cover up deception he was aware of.  Maybe he realized the same thing in the Chatter report that I have and was taking matters into his own hands and going to have Chatter pushed into an airplane propeller. 

Also have heard that AE refused to give Putnam a hug before she left on this flight and they parted ways with a hand shake due to a conflict between the two.  I never met the guy, obviously, but we know he went through several wives and remarried after she disappeared.  The scandal of Putnam offing her with intentions to remarry would make a good book or movie anyway...(wasn't there one?)

The maintenance report in the Chatter report talks of EGT(exhaust gas temp) probes being replaced.  They were also a maintenance item at least a couple other times at the stops before Lae.  I considered the possibility of maybe someone was maliciously tampering with her parked aircraft at. night like maybe it was an easy wire to grab ahold of through the cowling(there wouldn't have been very many wires on the engine) but more importantly this shows AE was meticulous about maintaining them so she could run the aircraft as efficiently as possible and get as far as possible on as little fuel as possible.  Not all electra had EGTs installed and so it shouldn't have really grounded the aircraft for them not to be functioning but she repaired these and their connections quite often despite having to interrupt her trip to do so.  I think this helps to suggest she plausibly could have had enough fuel to get 50 miles from Howland Island and return all the way back to my crash site.

"American Knowmad"
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Travis Nutsch

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2023, 10:47:50 PM »

I give you a thumbs up just for working DB Cooper into this. :D   I'm happy to see a young person working on this.  I'd be interested in knowing what piqued your interest in AE and the particulars of how you came across the photo.

I'd also be interested in where you found Wireless Weekly (is it available online?) and where you found the passenger schedules you mentioned. I just did a quick search of Pacific Islands Monthly, which lists most of the inter-island passenger liners in the region, and didn't see anything for the HMAS Kanimbla.  If it was a warship, why was it taking passengers?

Good questions Wireless Weekly was not an easy find but I was able to find it online and saved my own local copies.  I'll have to figure out where I found it when I have a chance.  Before the Kanimbla was a warship it was a passenger ship in 1937.  I believe it only went around Australia not between islands.  I have those schedules I found all saved as well.

EDIT: Originally was the MV Kanimbla.  HMAS Kanimbla when later converted to armed merchant cruiser.  I had to look up what HMAS meant...   I didn't mean to imply it was a warship at the time.
"American Knowmad"
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Part107
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 10:58:17 PM by Travis Nutsch »
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Christian Stock

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2023, 07:10:30 AM »

I am suggesting Amalgamated Wireless in part using the Kanimbla may have maliciously sabotaged the time signal, relayed inaccurate telegrams, and intentionally jammed and or manipulated her attempts at RF communication.

And why, pray tell, would they do that?  What would be their motivation?

Because it's a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theorists often need to construct some sort of bad actor to help them fabricate the missing pieces of the puzzle in their theories.
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Travis Nutsch

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2023, 01:02:06 AM »

Because it's a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theorists often need to construct some sort of bad actor to help them fabricate the missing pieces of the puzzle in their theories.

 ::)...You do know... 

The ENTIRE rest of the world calls TIGHAR and anyone else who investigates AE "Conspiracy Theorists..."  In fact TIGHAR is the largest most populated and known conspiracy theory group I can think of.  Am I so nutty the Conspiracy Theory Club rejects me and calls me a Conspiracy Theorist.  LMAO.

So seriously does nobody find all the discrepancies with Amalgamated Wireless suspicious?

The logs from the Navy ships looking for her show "Distinct Japanese music playing" on her frequency at several of the times of her scheduled transmissions.  How could there not be some sort of conspiratorial foul play going on?  I tend to think it was someone who wanted to point the finger at the Japanese rather than the Japanese themselves jamming the frequency.
"American Knowmad"
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Part107
Private Pilot
33
 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 04:11:28 AM by Travis Nutsch »
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Christian Stock

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2023, 07:36:49 AM »

Because it's a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theorists often need to construct some sort of bad actor to help them fabricate the missing pieces of the puzzle in their theories.

 ::)...You do know... 

The ENTIRE rest of the world calls TIGHAR and anyone else who investigates AE "Conspiracy Theorists..."  In fact TIGHAR is the largest most populated and known conspiracy theory group I can think of.  Am I so nutty the Conspiracy Theory Club rejects me and calls me a Conspiracy Theorist.  LMAO.

So seriously does nobody find all the discrepancies with Amalgamated Wireless suspicious?

The logs from the Navy ships looking for her show "Distinct Japanese music playing" on her frequency at several of the times of her scheduled transmissions.  How could there not be some sort of conspiratorial foul play going on?  I tend to think it was someone who wanted to point the finger at the Japanese rather than the Japanese themselves jamming the frequency.

That does not mean they are right. To have a conspiracy theory, one needs a conspiracy.

Neither Crashed and Sank (C&S) nor Niku are conspiracy theories in any sense.

C&S: After failing to find Howland, she ran out of gas (we're low on gas....her words), she crashed, splashed or landed on the ocean and was not rescued. No debris was ever found, and she never broadcasted "we're gonna be in the Hudson", "Mayday, Mayday", "oh sh*t", or anything like that. While there is no evidence of this happening, disappearing in the vast Pacific is not that unusual, and is a totally plausible explanation.

Niku: After failing to find Howland, and low on gas (her words), she found an island that is roughly on the line that she was flying (157/337....her words), landed (post loss signals, Bevington object, patch artifact, plexiglas, possibly other random airplane parts), attempted to survive (castaway campsite with cosmetics typically used by a 1930's western woman, clam shells, bird bones) and died (bones found). The only possible conspiracy I can find is among the coconut crabs.


Japanese Capture, Irene Bolam, and whatever Lovecraftian thing you have dreamed up ARE conspiracy theories. They all involve corporations, wealthy individuals, and/or governments conspiring to spy on each other, capture spies, sabotage the flight, or cover up malfeasance. Japanese Capture alone has a number of different endings for Amelia and Fred, with as many different locations and eyewitnesses to the deed.
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Matt Revington

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2023, 10:36:23 AM »



Possibly compelled to do so by the Japanese or possibly even George Putnam conspiring with Ernest Fisk of AMA(Amalgamated Wireless) pulling a publicity stunt to get rid of AE and do as he promised to make AE the most famous aviator of all time. 



Up to this point although I disagreed with your analysis I would have  given you the benefit off the doubt to keep listening but this type of idea requires support ( ie evidence) or it is just too big a reach and makes the whole hypothesis unworthy of further consideration unless you present something to back it up.
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Travis Nutsch

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2023, 11:15:39 AM »

Because it's a conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theorists often need to construct some sort of bad actor to help them fabricate the missing pieces of the puzzle in their theories.

 ::)...You do know... 

The ENTIRE rest of the world calls TIGHAR and anyone else who investigates AE "Conspiracy Theorists..."  In fact TIGHAR is the largest most populated and known conspiracy theory group I can think of.  Am I so nutty the Conspiracy Theory Club rejects me and calls me a Conspiracy Theorist.  LMAO.

So seriously does nobody find all the discrepancies with Amalgamated Wireless suspicious?

The logs from the Navy ships looking for her show "Distinct Japanese music playing" on her frequency at several of the times of her scheduled transmissions.  How could there not be some sort of conspiratorial foul play going on?  I tend to think it was someone who wanted to point the finger at the Japanese rather than the Japanese themselves jamming the frequency.

That does not mean they are right. To have a conspiracy theory, one needs a conspiracy.

Neither Crashed and Sank (C&S) nor Niku are conspiracy theories in any sense.

C&S: After failing to find Howland, she ran out of gas (we're low on gas....her words), she crashed, splashed or landed on the ocean and was not rescued. No debris was ever found, and she never broadcasted "we're gonna be in the Hudson", "Mayday, Mayday", "oh sh*t", or anything like that. While there is no evidence of this happening, disappearing in the vast Pacific is not that unusual, and is a totally plausible explanation.

Niku: After failing to find Howland, and low on gas (her words), she found an island that is roughly on the line that she was flying (157/337....her words), landed (post loss signals, Bevington object, patch artifact, plexiglas, possibly other random airplane parts), attempted to survive (castaway campsite with cosmetics typically used by a 1930's western woman, clam shells, bird bones) and died (bones found). The only possible conspiracy I can find is among the coconut crabs.


Japanese Capture, Irene Bolam, and whatever Lovecraftian thing you have dreamed up ARE conspiracy theories. They all involve corporations, wealthy individuals, and/or governments conspiring to spy on each other, capture spies, sabotage the flight, or cover up malfeasance. Japanese Capture alone has a number of different endings for Amelia and Fred, with as many different locations and eyewitnesses to the deed.

Yeah so?
"American Knowmad"
KF7FEV
Part107
Private Pilot
33
 
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Travis Nutsch

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2023, 11:28:15 AM »



Possibly compelled to do so by the Japanese or possibly even George Putnam conspiring with Ernest Fisk of AMA(Amalgamated Wireless) pulling a publicity stunt to get rid of AE and do as he promised to make AE the most famous aviator of all time. 



Up to this point although I disagreed with your analysis I would have  given you the benefit off the doubt to keep listening but this type of idea requires support ( ie evidence) or it is just too big a reach and makes the whole hypothesis unworthy of further consideration unless you present something to back it up.

Look... I don't know why it looks like Amalgamated wireless sabotaged the time signal and radio communications...  To me, it just really looks like they did, and Eric Chatter from his report, in my opinion, it seemed like he might have known what went wrong.  And then 4 months after AE disappeared Eric Chatter died when he walked into a propeller.

I heard about a possible location of her plane so  I reversed engineered how it possibly could have gotten there.  It all seems to line up pretty well to me so I am just trying to hypothesize how it all went down.
"American Knowmad"
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Part107
Private Pilot
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Jon Romig

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2023, 01:36:13 PM »



I heard about a possible location of her plane so  I reversed engineered how it possibly could have gotten there.  It all seems to line up pretty well to me so I am just trying to hypothesize how it all went down.

Travis,

Could you share you calculations that show how she could have reached NG after being close the the LOP?

Thanks.
Jon Romig 3562R
 
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Daniel R. Brown

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2023, 02:09:55 PM »

Sorry for perpetuating this but I can't resist. Since we seem to agree she got close to Howland after a flight of 2200+ miles and 18+ hours, I won't quibble over +/- 50 miles. To ballpark it, she used about 2/3rds of her fuel to get close to Howland. Everything else aside, the remaining 1/3rd of her fuel might have lasted at best about halfway back toward PNG.

https://tighar.org/wiki/File:Flight-section-two.jpg

Dan Brown, #2408
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Jeff Lange

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2023, 02:20:00 PM »

Travis,

You join our forum and then force feed a personally favored theory to the Forum. You aren't shy or even trying to be persuasive-you push. And when members rebut your theory, or ask for evidence, you say we are rude and provide little of substance.

If you think we are rude, you should try some of the REAL conspiracy sites out there, and see if you are allowed to post at all. What you seem to perceive as rudeness is just our members showing where there appear to be weaknesses in your theory. We've been there and done this MANY times before. The usual outcome is that the person who posts the "new" theory eventually gets angry or frustrated that we won't accept what they are offering and they storm out never to be heard from again here or on ANY internet site.

We will be more than happy to debate what you are bringing to the table, and you are welcome to be steadfast in your beliefs, but just don't be upset when we stand by our beliefs as strongly.
Jeff Lange

# 0748CR
 
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Diego Vásquez

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2023, 08:37:06 PM »

You join our forum and then force feed a personally favored theory to the Forum. You aren't shy or even trying to be persuasive-you push. And when members rebut your theory, or ask for evidence, you say we are rude and provide little of substance. 

To be fair, he introduced his theory with nothing more than a Youtube link, was asked for more details and provided them fairly straightforward (at least at first).  Things gradually got a little testy, nothing like the before times, and it seems a bit much to say that he's force feeding it.  I've read a lot of articles and books on zany AE theories (The British Connection!).  Sometimes I just have to put them down, but as long as the writer appears to have done some research or has at least given it some legitimate thought, I generally try to see if there's anything I can pick up from them, even if the conclusion appears obviously wrong.  I've picked up a lot of interesting and/or useful tidbits this way.  I didn't know that there was an Australian Wireless Weekly mag until I read Travis's posts.  (Travis: I'd like to find it).

And as far as denigrating someone for espousing a "personally favored theory," Shirley you’re joking, right?  You must be joking because it’s very funny.  Or are you just being tongue in cheek, facetious, blowing smoke, yanking my chain, etc.?, for the raven chides blackness.  How many people do you think there are on this forum who don't espouse Niku as their personally-favored theory?  I can think of two.  And it was only one until Travis joined recently.  I readily concede that TIGHAR’s Niku theory is the product of a mountain of research and effort, much of it outstanding, and that they looked at and at least considered evidence from other theories along the way.  But no one should kid themself into thinking that the Niku/TIGHAR theory got to its current form without a lot of ego involvement that was highly focused on Niku.  There’s nothing wrong with that per se - everyone wants to be proven right - but there’s no doubt that almost all of the people who put that effort into the research were pursuing their personally-favored theory.   
I want to believe.

Diego V.
 
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Diego Vásquez

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Re: Different island .. I got pictures.
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2023, 09:02:08 PM »

I mean seriously Ric .... I'd suggest you might have knowledge of the Betty notebook being a forged artifact ....

Travis - I appreciate your sincere research into AE and the enthusiasm in your posts here, and I encourage you to continue with both.  But I also suggest that you keep in mind that there is sometimes a fine line between attacking a given theory or claim and making a personal attack.  I've certainly had my differences with Ric over the years, but the above snippet was probably a bit too close to the line for comfort.  Just a friendly suggestion fwiw.

Diego
I want to believe.

Diego V.
 
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