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Author Topic: Research needed - August-September 1936  (Read 47579 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Research needed - August-September 1936
« on: February 17, 2016, 04:34:36 PM »

I've started a new thread in a (probably futile) attempt to avoid confusion and make it easier to find stuff later.

Here's a preliminary timeline for August and September.

August 2
 Earhart and McLeod make a 1 hour and 55 minute flight to Mills Field, San Francisco.

August 3
Earhart and McLeod fly the Electra across the bay to Alameda to see Elmer Dimity’s big parachute and fog dispeller.  The airplane is marked X16020

August 7
The aircraft is inspected by the Bureau of Air Commerce and approved for registration number R16020.

August 18
The aircraft is issued a Bureau of Air Commerce license as R16020. "Restricted for long distance flights and research. No persons may be carried except bone-fide members of the crew."

August 29
AE flies the Electra nonstop from Burbank to Kansas City on her way to Floyd Bennett Field to enter the Bendix race. Mantz and McKneely are with her. (Butler, page 364.  No citation)

Sept. 4
Bendix race.  Helen Richey accompanies her as copilot.  She is back in California at the end of the race.

Sept. 20
At Purdue with the Electra

Sept. 29
At a Roosevelt campaign event on Sept 29 in Syracuse NY

Oct. 2-30
Lecture tour by car.

November 7
Earhart attends a football game in Baltimore.  She isn't back on the west coast until on or about November 19
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Matt Revington

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2016, 05:16:16 PM »

According to the wiki page the principal photography for Love on the Run was from August 15 to Sept 16, since the Electra was already painted for the Bendix race it is probable that it's use for the film was between August 15 and early Sept.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2016, 05:25:26 PM »

According to the wiki page the principal photography for Love on the Run was from August 15 to Sept 16, since the Electra was already painted for the Bendix race it is probable that it's use for the film was between August 15 and early Sept.

I think the probable window is a little tighter than that.  The airplane didn't get its license to carry the number R16020 until August 18 and if Butler is correct, AE, Mantz, and McNeely flew it to Kansas City on August 29, so that's roughly a ten-day period.  I wonder if AE and Putnam were out of town during that time. I wouldn't put it past Paul to say, "What the hell. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I just can't see AE and Putnam condoning that use of the airplane.
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Matt Revington

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2016, 06:20:49 PM »

AE gave an interview to a labour/left wing paper on Sept 11

http://depts.washington.edu/labhist/laborpress/VoiceofAction.htm
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Friend Weller

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2016, 09:18:57 PM »

I wouldn't put it past Paul to say, "What the hell. It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I just can't see AE and Putnam condoning that use of the airplane.

I'll ask my friend if there are any Mantz family stories about this...
Friend
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016, 07:50:12 AM »

AE gave an interview to a labour/left wing paper on Sept 11

Unfortunately there is no mention of where or how she did the interview. The Voice of Action office was in Seattle.  Did they come to her in California or was she in Seattle on a lecture tour?  The interview could have been by phone but "long-distance" was expensive.
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Daniel R. Brown

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016, 08:00:59 AM »

VIEWS EARHART PLANE (Logansport [IN] Press, Friday, 8/21/36)
Los Angeles, Aug. 20 (AP) —Dr. Edward C. Elliott, president of Purdue University, Lafayette, Ind., arrived today to inspect the $80,000 "flying laboratory" which Amelia Earhart, aviatrix, will use in experimental flights. The institution will sponsor her experimental work. (An undated UP [sic, i.e. not AP] photo of AE with Elliott was published in the 8/27/36 Berkeley [CA] Daily Gazette: "Dr. Elliot [sic] visited the "classroom" at Burbank, Calif.")

No mention of AE in the on-line newspaper archive during the period between 8/20 and 8/29.



Many articles in Associated Press-affiliated newspapers document the trip from Burbank to New York:

MISS EARHART LEAVES WEST FOR NEW YORK (Biloxi Daily Herald, Saturday, August 29, 1936)
Burbank, Calif., Aug. 29—(AP)—Amelia Earhart took off at 7:34 a.m. (10:34 Eastern Standard Time,) today in her new "flying laboratory" bound for New York
and the start of the trans-continental Bendix trophy race Sept. 4. Miss Earhart plans to make her first stop at Kansas City where Paul Mantz, her technical advisor,  will leave the plane and return to Los Angeles. The third passenger aboard the big $100,000 transport sponsored by Purdue University was C. Mc-
Nieley [sic], mechanic. The lateness of Miss Earhart's hopoff this morning apparently precluded an attempt at speed records.


[Landed Kansas City 5:40 p.m. Aug. 29 after non-stop flight from Burbank.  Both motors were leaking oil and mechanics were seeking the cause. One or possibly two stops planned on flight to New York August 30. (Jefferson City [MO] Sunday News and Tribune, 8/30/36)]


[Cleveland, Aug. 30 (AP) - landed Cleveland 7:30 pm EST 8/30/36.]

Cleveland, Aug. 31 (AP) - took off today for New York in her "flying laboratory" plane, after an unexpected stop here yesterday for work on the plane's motor.


Amelia Earhart Reaches New York
BROOKLYN. Aug. 31.—(AP)—Mrs. Amelia Earhart Putnam arrived at Floyd Bennett airfield at 9 a.m., (CST) today after a flight of two hours, 15 minutes from Cleveland. She is an entrant in the Bendlx air race which will be flown from New York to Los Angeles Sept. 4.


Dan Brown, #2408
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016, 08:23:12 AM »

Excellent Dan.

Here's an updated chronology:

August 2
 Earhart and McLeod make a 1 hour and 55 minute flight to Mills Field, San Francisco.

August 3
Earhart and McLeod fly the Electra across the bay to Alameda to see Elmer Dimity’s big parachute and fog dispeller.  The airplane is marked X16020

August 7
The aircraft is inspected by the Bureau of Air Commerce and approved for registration number R16020.

August 18
The aircraft is issued a Bureau of Air Commerce license as R16020. "Restricted for long distance flights and research. No persons may be carried except bone-fide members of the crew."

August 20
At Burbank, Earhart shows Purdue president Elliott the new airplane.

August 29
AE flies the Electra nonstop from Burbank to Kansas City on her way to Floyd Bennett Field to enter the Bendix race. Mantz and McKneely are with her. Mantz only went as far as Kansas City. Engines were leaking oil.

August 30
AE and McKneely fly from Kansas City to Cleveland, OH. Apparently an unplanned stop due to engine trouble (probably still leaking oil).

August 31
AE and McKneely fly from Cleveland to  Floyd Bennett Field, NY for the Bendix Race.

Sept. 4
Bendix race.  Helen Richey accompanies her as copilot.  She is back in California at the end of the race.

Sept. 20
At Purdue with the Electra

Sept. 29
At a Roosevelt campaign event on Sept 29 in Syracuse NY

Oct. 2-30
Lecture tour by car.

November 7
Earhart attends a football game in Baltimore.  She isn't back on the west coast until on or about November 19
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016, 08:40:18 AM »

I'd add between Aug 20 - 29:  Mantz uses the Electra for movie "Love on the Run".

So AE was in Burbank on 20th with Purdue president.  Filming had to have happened during those 9 days.  Can't believe AE would condone that with Purdue president arriving.

Maybe AE and GP were showing Elliott around LA the next few days and Mantz took advantage of their absence.  Maybe Purdue Univ. has some records of his trip and stay in LA.  It's also possible, I suppose, that AE knew about/approved using the aircraft in the movie and spirited Elliott away -- to Catalina Island perhaps -- (Mantz and AE were there frequently) so Elliott would see his $80,000 investment being 'abused'.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 08:51:29 AM by Bill Mangus »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 09:03:08 AM »

Seems like the filming for Love On The Run must have taken place in the week between August 21 and August 28, and probably closer to the 28th than the 21st.  It's not the sort of thing you'd think would happen while Elliott was there.

But here's something odd. In the Love On The Run clip, at :46, there are numbers on the upper surface of the right wing.  Looks like " - 2".  At :56 you can very briefly see something on the top of the right wing.  Maybe "16". At 1:02 there is definitely nothing painted on the top of the right wing.  At 1:08 the top wing is marked R16020 (although the middle 0 looks a bit funky). At 1:19 the right wing is marked "16 -2" but you can see where the "R" has been removed.

So the aircraft was photographed in three different iterations:
• With the right wing unmarked
• With the right wing marked R16020
• With the right wing markings altered to 16 - 2

Possible explanation.  They shoot the scene before the wing is painted and they think they're done.  The wing gets painted but the director decides he needs another take, so they shoot the scene again.  Somebody then notices that R16020 can be seen in the new take.  Damn! So they alter the number on the wing and shoot the scene a third time.  The final cut is an amalgam of all three takes.  It seems like this would all have taken at least two days.

I'm also posting this on the Love On The Run thread.
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Matt Revington

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2016, 09:06:08 AM »

Given the engine troubles on the way east at the end of August I think we can be confident that the Electra underwent a fair amount of service in California after AE got back on the Sept 4th, probably was grounded for several days afterward.  I would be surprised if McKneely did not fly with her to Purdue later in September in case further issues developed on the way.
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Matt Revington

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2016, 12:32:41 PM »

Apparently AE did go back to back to California after leaving Purdue, in this article from Sept 24, 1936

http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn89071389/1936-09-24/ed-1/seq-4/#date1=01%2F01%2F1936&index=13&date2=12%2F31%2F1936&searchType=advanced&SearchType=prox5&sequence=0&words=Earhart&proxdistance=5&to_year=1936&rows=20&ortext=&from_year=1936&proxtext=Earhart+&phrasetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

she is quoted about Roosevelt, and then it is mentioned that she is at the Union Air Terminal, Burbank California.

**edit** Actually it appears that this is a danger of using weekly small town newspapers as sources, the interview cited above was likely given before she left California to go to Purdue, I found the same article in other papers in early October when we know she was doing the lecture circuit, then I found this citation which gives a list of the rounds she was making for FDR in the lead up to the Democratic Convention on Sept 28-29 in Syracuse, according to the Plattsburgh Daily Republican., September 21, 1936, AE was joining the Democratic caravan and starting Thursday Sept 24 she was going to "speak in 5 counties, Germantown, Kinderhook, Va?, Chatham and Mount Lebanon.  Driving her own car Miss Earhart will follow the caravan the following day ad speak in Waterford, Mechanicsville, Bailson Spa and Saratoga springs."
http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn84031883/1936-09-21/ed-1/seq-1/

The car mention is interesting because I have a couple of reports that she flew into Syracuse for the convention.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 12:50:18 PM by Matt Revington »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2016, 12:52:26 PM »

she is quoted about Roosevelt, and then it is mentioned that she is at the Union Air Terminal, Burbank California.

So she leaves the Electra in Burbank and travels to Syracuse, arriving by the 29th.  After the Roosevelt campaign event she sets off on her lecture tour.  The aircraft is in California from September 24 to November 23 when she heads back east, stopping inSouth Bend on the way to talk to Vince Bendix.

Updated chronology:

August 2
 Earhart and McLeod make a 1 hour and 55 minute flight to Mills Field, San Francisco.

August 3
Earhart and McLeod fly the Electra across the bay to Alameda to see Elmer Dimity’s big parachute and fog dispeller.  The airplane is marked X16020

August 7
The aircraft is inspected by the Bureau of Air Commerce and approved for registration number R16020.

August 18
The aircraft is issued a Bureau of Air Commerce license as R16020. "Restricted for long distance flights and research. No persons may be carried except bone-fide members of the crew."

August 20
At Burbank, Earhart shows Purdue president Elliott the new airplane.

August 29
AE flies the Electra nonstop from Burbank to Kansas City on her way to Floyd Bennett Field to enter the Bendix race. Mantz and McKneely are with her. Mantz only went as far as Kansas City. Engines were leaking oil.

August 30
AE and McKneely fly from Kansas City to Cleveland, OH. Apparently an unplanned stop due to engine trouble (probably still leaking oil).

August 31
AE and McKneely fly from Cleveland to  Floyd Bennett Field, NY for the Bendix Race.

Sept. 4
Bendix race.  Helen Richey accompanies her as copilot.  She is back in California at the end of the race.

Sept. 20
At Purdue with the Electra

Sept. 29
At a Roosevelt campaign event on Sept 29 in Syracuse NY

Oct. 2-30
Lecture tour by car.

November 7
Earhart attends a football game in Baltimore.  She isn't back on the west coast until on or about November 19
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Harbert William Davenport

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2016, 01:38:25 PM »

I agree with the observations and the main conclusions of Ric's Reply # 9 in this thread, that there were at least 2 or 3 different iterations of the Electra's appearance in the film clip, which probably indicate that the filming took place over more than one day. (The shadows seem fairly consistent, to my untrained eye.  So, at about the same time on a different day?)
 Let me just add a few observations of my own, with the caveat that I have no expertise whatsoever in the analysis of photographs.  I am simply trying be a careful observer here.
   I see the designation "16-2" at least five times in the clip, in three different places on the plane.  From this I conclude that for at least one shoot it was the filmmakers' intention that the plane show that designation.  It is also clear that the "16-2" designation, on the upper right wing, at least, was crafted by leaving those three original numerals untouched, while masking the 'R' and final zero, and changing the other zero to a dash (1:19).  The same procedure may also have served for the left tail (0:06-07,0:56), where the Lockheed logo is also covered, and under the left wing (0:56).
  I agree with Ric that no numerals at all appear on the upper right wing at 1:02.  I will leave it to others to determine if that reflects the plane itself at the time of that shot, and thus represents a third iteration, or whether it might have been achieved by altering the film rather than the plane.
   As a footnote, my layman's guess is that the continuation of the takeoff in the final shot of the clip (1:29-30), is the model and not the real Electra.  Did Ric just want to test us, to see if we are really paying attention?  ;)

Later addendum:  With all due respect I now wish to retract my agreement with Ric about how many days the filming took and instead agree with Russ Matthews, who provides us with an authoritative analysis of the film in his Reply # 24 in the thread "Love on the Run 1937."  Russ provides good arguments and evidence that it was very likely a one-day shoot.
   
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« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 07:16:53 PM by Harbert William Davenport »
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Matt Revington

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Re: Research needed - August-September 1936
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2016, 02:01:45 PM »

I can confirm that Earhart did do the Democratic caravan trip on Sept 24 and 25 in New York: the paper from Ballston Spa on Sept 26 has a detailed report of her stop there, travelling by car, it appears that her husband travelled with her ( among others) although he is called  Edward Putnam in the article

http://fultonhistory.com/Newspapers%2021/Ballston%20Spa%20NY%20Daily%20Journal/Ballston%20Spa%20NY%20Daily%20Journal%201936/Ballston%20Spa%20NY%20Daily%20Journal%201936%20-%201375.pdf
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