Plane in the Pond

[Captain Andy]

Check tighar tracks volume nine volume four and can I see your notes

[Ric Gillespie]

Check tighar tracks volume nine volume four and can I see your notes

Thanks.  That TIGHAR Tracks article is an excellent summary of all the stories about artifacts found or allegedly found at or near the Gull Pond. There's nothing more I can add.

[Brian Tannahill]

The issue of Tighar Tracks that Ric and Andy referred to can be found here, and the full index of Tighar Tracks is here.

[Brian Tannahill]

Martin lived in Harrogate, North Yorkshire.  He said the AVRO factory that made Lancaster bombers to which he gave the piece of metal was about 5 miles from his mill.  Can we confirm that there was an AVRO factory that made Lancasters near Harrogate?  Did it, at some time, burn as Hawker Siddeley people told CBC reporter Rob Parker in 1974?  Parker mentions contacting an AVRO/Hawker-Siddeley factory in Manchester, but Manchester is a long way from Harrogate.  Where was the fire?

Ric, you wrote this in 1993 and may have already covered this ground but here's what I found.

The AVRO factory in Chadderton, just northeast of Manchester, produced Lancaster bombers during the war.  Ralph Martin said his mill in Bradford was about 5 miles from the factory.  On Google Maps the distance from Bradford to Chadderton seems to be about 20 miles, so this is a plausible match.

According to the same source, "It was in the 1959-1960 period that Chadderton was hit by a series of fires in various parts of the factory. The first of these and the most serious occurred on October 3 1959 when a massive blaze destroyed large sections of the production and office areas."  That's the right time period for the fire Ralph Martin mentioned.

[Ric Gillespie]

Ralph Martin said his mill in Bradford was about 5 miles from the factory.  On Google Maps the distance from Bradford to Chadderton seems to be about 20 miles, so this is a plausible match.

That's excellent work Brian.  Thanks.  Where did Ralph Martin say that his mill was in Bradford? 

[Brian Tannahill]

It's in the document Notes re Martin.pdf, attached to reply #3 in this thread. 

"He had a mill in Bradford, Yorkshire."

[Ric Gillespie]

It's in the document Notes re Martin.pdf, attached to reply #3 in this thread. 

"He had a mill in Bradford, Yorkshire."

Got it.  I missed that.  Thanks.

[Captain Andy]

Well anyone up for a trip to England

[Ric Gillespie]

Well anyone up for a trip to England

I'm always up for a trip to England but what would you suggest that we do when we get there?  I have some ideas about a possible next step in this investigation but I'd like to hear what you think.

[Captain Andy]

To see weather or not the files from the factory still exist

[Ric Gillespie]

To see weather or not the files from the factory still exist

Where would you look for the files if the factory no longer exists?

[Captain Andy]

Oh right well see if they're in hawker siddeleys archives

[Ric Gillespie]

To see weather or not the files from the factory still exist

Start here maybe

Thanks Chris.  The factory at Chadderton is still very much in operation but the chance that any records from 1947 still exist seems slim.  However, the factory history says, "Visitors to the site, or their families, who worked at the Chadderton factory before the fire in October, 1959, when most of the records were destroyed, may have photographs or memorabilia in their possession which could be very useful." 
We need to connect with those people.  There may be an association of former employees.  The best tactic may be to convince an editor at The Guardian newspaper to run a story about the White Bird/Patsy Judge/Chadderton mystery.  It would be a great way to cast a net over the whole Manchester area (and beyond) and see what fish we can pull in.  And there's no need to travel to England to do it.
I'll work on that when I have time.

[Captain Andy]

I think Patsy lost the letter by storing it in his barn which later burned

[Ric Gillespie]

I think Patsy lost the letter by storing it in his barn which later burned

That's possible.