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Author Topic: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip  (Read 29098 times)

Jim M Sivright

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2015, 07:32:18 PM »

Can I reply Ric?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2015, 07:37:02 PM »

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Jim M Sivright

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2015, 08:06:59 PM »

well in some quarters there is a debate as to whether it is a freckle cream jar or some other jar. 

Yes, to be exact, the artifact was not conclusively identified as a freckle-cream jar, but as being strongly consistent with a freckle-cream jar.

For anyone who cares to look further, the evidence (pro and con), and possible connections to AE, are summarized and discussed in this thread, which includes a link to the report on the jar: New Artifact Report: A Freckle in Time

Yes, Jennifer, I am aware of that report, as I referred to it in a previous post. and as the phrase Chris likes to use, the jury is still out. The jury is still out on all this info folks, until the smoking gun is found. Yes, the freckle jar is not positively id'd as Dr. Berry's freckle cream, but using a phrase that I like to use is, the odds or probabilities are strong that it is the jar in question.

"but as being strongly consistent with a freckle-cream jar."

Any other suggestions are welcome.

" My own view as an armchair pundit is that the narrow occupancy of Gardner Island and it particular surface makes for a very mixed top soil that see's different strata mixed together"

Chris, what in the h... does that mean? That's the second time you have used a similar phrase. I am from Texas, sir, and topsoil to me is dirt, and strata is a bunch of flat rocks piled on top of each other. Please splain the statement.
 And, what is the world do the bones in the 7 site have to do with what we are talking about? As with, water catcher, stenciling, Tarawa Police markings, skull hole, rentress? "Me thinks you doth protest too much"
You seem to be very eloquent with your words,  and I respect that, but maybe you need to stay on topic. Some people think that when you stray from the topic like you do, they are not sure you know what you are talking about.
As far as the Kool-Aid comment is concerned, here is a 66 yr old Texan telling an Englishman how to behave. No irony here. Happy 4th of July Sir.

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Monty Fowler

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2015, 08:20:14 PM »

Everyone knows it was grape Flavor Aid anyway. Sheesh ...

LTM, who appreciates the ironies of history,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
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Simon Dale

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2015, 03:16:29 AM »

Just as a matter of interest, according to the vessel finder website Fiji Princess is currently on course 360 degrees, trundling along at 102.3 knots.  I won't post the link as I'm not sure on the rules about that on this forum, but perhaps the next expedition should consider using this boat to get to Nikumaroro.  It would certainly save on time!

Have followed TIGHAR's work for a long time and look forward to hearing more.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2015, 04:01:52 AM »

Just as a matter of interest, according to the vessel finder website Fiji Princess is currently on course 360 degrees, trundling along at 102.3 knots.  I won't post the link as I'm not sure on the rules about that on this forum ...

We love links and encourage people to use them.

You gave sufficient clues so that a good Googler could follow your path anyway, but the whole glory of the Internet is in linking one thing to another.  By all means, provide links so that it is easier for your readers to see what you are talking about!   :)

LTM,

           Marty
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Simon Dale

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2015, 04:22:59 AM »

We love links and encourage people to use them.

You gave sufficient clues so that a good Googler could follow your path anyway, but the whole glory of the Internet is in linking one thing to another.  By all means, provide links so that it is easier for your readers to see what you are talking about!   :)

Thanks Martin, and I've updated my profile as well.  Link to my original comment:

https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/FIJI-PRINCESS-IMO-9199907
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 06:07:26 AM by Bruce Thomas »
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2015, 06:13:35 AM »

Perhaps the spurious speed of 102.3 knots for Fiji Princess is related to the bogus longitude and latitude shown: 91 degrees N and 181 degrees E!
LTM,

Bruce
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Tim Collins

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2015, 06:31:10 AM »

There is a train of though(t), unproven that Freckle cream was used as a basic sun screen in those days and as there were pale skinned Europeans on the island it makes sense that the store or Loran station 'could' have stocked this item.

What is a train of unproven thought?


A train of thought that is unproven ;)


The term you are looking for is hypothesis.
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Dale O. Beethe

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2015, 07:03:09 AM »

Perhaps the spurious speed of 102.3 knots for Fiji Princess is related to the bogus longitude and latitude shown: 91 degrees N and 181 degrees E!
Wow!  I've been on some fairly fast ships, but 102 knots is truly impressive!  It's got to be interesting to watch a vessel that big get up on plane!
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JNev

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2015, 01:31:37 PM »

The only thing more astonishing here than a cruise ship making 102.3 knots is watching a senior admin give the green light to another poster to 'moderate' a well-intended if challenging poster of long standing in this place for one not-so-flattering reference.  I realize senstivities are running high, but is this really a positive way to encourage thoughtful and respectful posting?  But, I'm glad to hear of the Republic of Texas celebrating the 4th in any case, LOL!!!

I will say that ANYONE who ventures into speculation, postulation or adoption or adaptation of any theory or hypothesis regarding the Earhart disappearance is on very slick ice at the very least, IMO - the thickness of which can only be tested by venturing out onto it to test the veracity of the given set of assumptions.  I respect those who differ - and that includes that Ric recently made it clear to me in this place that one of our biggest differences is that he is absoluately convinced that she's there, whereas I've come to treat the matter as more of a 'jury still out' proposition over time.  I also appreciate that he gave me credit for sincerity - and yes, I am that, even in criticism.

The findings of more graves and the stores evidence by tourist-investigators did in fact get my attention and made me wonder a bit about what went before.  I do however also respect the comment that more people were available and briefed by Dr. King to look about than TIGHAR's been able to field in that place before, so I will give credit there as well.

The stores situation does however cloud the 'freckle cream jar' and possibly other prospects for me, personally (YMMV, of course) - it seems to introduce more possible sources for the stuff found there.  I am at least informed all the more that many possiblities do in fact exist, no matter how I'd prefer to read the 'signs' of it all.

As much as I have been attracted to the 'seven site' finds and character of that place, TIGHAR herself has always had to admit risk that it might not be 'the place' of the skull ('Gardnergotha'?).  Yes, we have (or had) an old Ren tree - and a hole that might be 'it' (the skull hole).  But I have to respect Chris's comments - much remains to be understood before claiming these things as hard evidence because there are truly so many other possibilities.  The very findings of the Princess' explorers underscores that point: Niku still appears to hold many little facts that are little known so far if at all, whatever they mean (Earhart or not).

Bottom line, I hope our long-time poster Chris needn't worry so much over a purple-tinted comment and that we can all find a more civil and calm objectivity again.  Personally, if I didn't still think Niku had a chance of yielding Earhart (I think deep sea / broader area searching is the only way to answer that now) and value the good I've seen here (the trove of hard history gathered and pasted into TIGHAR's 'stacks' from men like Friedell, Hooven and others), I wouldn't bother at all.  And again I'll thank Ric for recently giving me credit for sincerity, even when my criticism is distasteful.

Thanks be for the fourth... and for my heritage predating that, actually - I'm not above remembering that, where my people came from.  I'll also tip my hat toward Texas on March 2, I promise - and remember that a Georgian was there at that critical moment that followed with Mr. Crockett, among other great people - and think of April 21 as well - when a general was caught in a corporal's blouse and the matter settled. 

But we are after all, as we've been reminded, a very international organization here.  I hope we can be charitable in criticism as well.
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 02:51:07 PM by Jeffrey Neville »
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Jim M Sivright

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2015, 04:27:52 PM »

Well said Jeff,
And thanks for your appreciation of Texas history.
My purpose for challenging and although not intentional, provoking Chris was to mainly concentrate on the freckle jar itself. Maybe I was too sensitive about this, but Chris kept trying to change the subject and entering many other items into the discussion. After all, it only takes one item traced to Amelia to prove she was there. I was simply trying to objectively discuss the probabilities and possibilities of how that jar got on that island.
I respect Chris and I have told him so. I do wonder, however, how often he gets challenged or disagreed with.
Maybe that's why he reacted the way he did.
It's ok, though, I can take it, and the "aid" comment didn't bother me so much. Ric found it more questionable than I did. However, I am not so sure about the "green light" comment. From where I was sitting at the time, after the "thin ice" comment, I thought Ric was going to say something else to Chris. All I did was to ask if I could reply first, that's all. And by the way, Chris was not on "thin ice" because of his discussion agreeing or not agreeing with Tighar, he was on "thin ice" because of his demeanor. Ric doesn't mind disagreement, that's how you get spirited discussions going, but if you are the least bit rude, you will be on thin ice.
I thought I was being very courteous, respectful, and thoughtful to Chris, how was I not? I was trying to convince him to focus on that one object.
Yes, Chris is a long-standing poster, but, in my opinion, he needs to learn how to handle provocation, and disagreement.
Jeff, I think you are right about sensitivities being high, myself included, this is way too much. I have said everything twice now, so I have gone full circle,  and I hope this has been clarified.

OK OK the 4th of July was too much of a jab, so I apologize to the gentleman from England.

Jim
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JNev

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Re: Archaeological summary of Fiji Princess trip
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2015, 05:12:01 PM »

No blood, no foul as Marty has often said, and thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I'm familiar with the moderation habits here by many years, but appreciate your positive view.  That is after all why I bothered...  ;)

You do live in one fine state, I always enjoy my visits - including having been to the Alamo.

I realize my friend Chris can be pointed and drift is a hazard I contribute to, often enough.  I also fully appreciate that any single artifact that could be definitely linked to Earhart would cinch the case for all but the most dense critic, but am sobered by the potential pool of sources for the bottle, etc., heretofore not so realized.  It is also sobering to think of 'ordinary tourists' stumbling upon finds that TIGHAR did not know of, such as the graves and store evidence.  But that does serve to underscore how difficult it is to land on and survey Niku in enough force to truly scour the island.

Not to discourage any who hold to the review of these landed artifacts, but I've become convinced that nothing short of the bird itself - likely in deep waters somewhere, will answer this thing definitively.  YMMV, of course. It has been a great pursuit trying to puzzle out provenance to Earhart by these hard-won articles, and I've been fascinated by having seen them in person a few times as well - but at this point I can only wish those who continue that pursuit the best of luck: it is daunting to tie such things to our heroine, to say the least.
- Jeff Neville

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