2-2-V-1 - patch?

[John Ousterhout]

The location of the loop antenna is the give-away to me.  Linda's is larger and forward of the hatch, just above the windscreen.  Amelia's was just behind the hatch during her final around the world attempt.
Later Edit - I have no idea where I got the idea that Amelia's loop antenna was behind the hatch.  Sorry for any confusion.

[Bruce Thomas]

The location of the loop antenna is the give-away to me.  Linda's is larger and forward of the hatch, just above the windscreen.  Amelia's was just behind the hatch during her final around the world attempt.

John, I can't agree with you there. In a photo taken in Venezuela on the Final Flight, that loop antenna seems to clearly be forward of the hatch. Don't you agree?

[Oskar Erich Heinrich Haberlandt]

Right. Foto taken at Lae, june 29 (A.E. standing on the left wing, coming off after landing) shows the loop-antenna in front of the the hatch.

[Oskar Erich Heinrich Haberlandt]

Ric,
@ V-V-2-1: Any news from Jeff???
@ Niku VIII: Do you think TIGHAR will get enough money??? (no Niku VIII in september would be a big disappointment!)
Oskar #4421A

[Andrew M McKenna]

Here is a screen shot of Linda Finch's aircraft that seems to be flying over the same type of terrain as the photo Richie Posted.

You can find it at minute 2:17 of Part 2 of 4 of "The Final Hours Amelia Earhart's Last Flight - 2000 Documentary"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_1899&feature=iv&src_vid=ZkZa0O3ZvVk&v=T-mlCT4ED3w

The funny little blob on the aft starboard side is evident in both photos, but not in any of AE's photos.

amck

[C.W. Herndon]

The red trim along the leading edge of the wings is nothing like it was on AE's aircraft either. See photo 1 for AE's ship and compare it to photo 2 the other Electra.

[Bruce Thomas]

And here again we have a picture that's been undoubtedly miscaptioned as having been taken in Miami as NR16020 was being refueled. The rainy conditions and overcoats would more likely mean that this was taken the day of the departure from Oakland in March 1937 at the beginning of the First World Flight (remember the puddles on the runway as AE's plane lifted off the runway that day?). I think I can pick out Mantz in a light-colored overcoat, such as he's seen wearing in another photo that day as the postmistress of Oakland handed over a package of first-day covers. Also, notice the presence of the window in the lavatory area, which we know was not there when they left Miami.

[Monty Fowler]

The red trim along the leading edge of the wings is nothing like it was on AE's aircraft either. See photo 1 for AE's ship and compare it to photo 2 the other Electra.

I'd agree on the configuration of the leading edge stripes - the one on Amelia and Fred's Electra had a graceful curve leading to the back of the engine nacelle - AND a very thin black strip to separate the International Orange (TIGHAR has a piece of her plane with that color, it is not red) from the bare metal.

LTM, who has a lot more gray paint than he will ever need,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

EDIT - Thinking back (always better to do that before you post), I believe TIGHAR was able to look at a piece of the Electra from the Luke Field crash, to verify the paint color, but it was returned to the owner afterwards.

[C.W. Herndon]

And here again we have a picture that's been undoubtedly miscaptioned as having been taken in Miami as NR16020 was being refueled. The rainy conditions and overcoats would more likely mean that this was taken the day of the departure from Oakland in March 1937 at the beginning of the First World Flight (remember the puddles on the runway as AE's plane lifted off the runway that day?). I think I can pick out Mantz in a light-colored overcoat, such as he's seen wearing in another photo that day as the postmistress of Oakland handed over a package of first-day covers. Also, notice the presence of the window in the lavatory area, which we know was not there when they left Miami.

Bruce, you are absolutely correct. We have discussed that issue before at some length. I saved the picture with the caption that it had when I saved it. It noticed it after I posted it here but didn't change it hoping no one would notice that part. I should have known that you or someone else with those "sharp eyes" would pick it up. Touche'.

[C.W. Herndon]

I'd agree on the configuration of the leading edge stripes - the one on Amelia and Fred's Electra had a graceful curve leading to the back of the engine nacelle - AND a very thin black strip to separate the International Orange (TIGHAR has a piece of her plane with that color, it is not red) from the bare metal.

Very interesting Monty. This is the first time I have seen anything about TIGHAR having a piece of the Electra painted that color.

[JNev]

Here is a screen shot of Linda Finch's aircraft that seems to be flying over the same type of terrain as the photo Richie Posted.

You can find it at minute 2:17 of Part 2 of 4 of "The Final Hours Amelia Earhart's Last Flight - 2000 Documentary"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_1899&feature=iv&src_vid=ZkZa0O3ZvVk&v=T-mlCT4ED3w

The funny little blob on the aft starboard side is evident in both photos, but not in any of AE's photos.

amck

The "funny little blob" appears to be an exhaust outlet that somehow relates to the cabin heater system.  I studied that on the Finch airplane at Museum of flight.  My guess is that there was an alternate exhuast path that ran from the nacelles to the fuselage and along the lower outboard edges of the cabin (inside and just above the floorboards, where we know the 'heater ducts' were normally located), thence out at the rearward area where we see the 'little blob'.  The 'blob' is a faired protrusion - aluminum - that houses what appears to be an exhaust outlet similar to the one we can also observe on the outboard sides of each nacelle. 

Guessing again, my thought is that with cabin heat selected, some or all of the engine exhaust would be routed through this contraption - which may have included a double-walled pipe as it traveled through the cabin (just a thought - the whole thing give me the willies and wouldn't be certifiable today...).  Maybe someone can dig up more facts on how that all worked - but that is what the 'blob' device appears to be part of.

The Earhart airplane does not seem to have this arrangement.  Perhaps the bird was spec'd to exclude a heater system.  My additional guess is that cabin heat would not have been so vital on the round the word trip since it was fairly equatorial, but one does wonder about other flying Earhart did.  It does seem there were likely compromises such as this to save weight in the 'flying laboratory', however.

[Monty Fowler]

The "search" function is such a beautiful thing. Now if only I would remember to use it before spouting off. From the old forum, http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Forum/Forum_Archives/199809.txt :

"From Ric

That's right, but fortunately we do know what color the airplane was.  Of course, most of it was bare aluminum.  The leading edge of the wings and the top of the horizontal tail surface was painted orange edged with a black stripe.  A former Lockheed employee who now lives in Oregon salvaged a chunk of discarded tail skin when the airplane was being repaired after the Luke Field mishap.  It has the orange paint and piece of the stripe.  The piece has been lovingly kept for all these years so the orange paint has not faded.  The color has been matched to Federal Standard 595B - 12197 December 1989.

Now, here's a question.  What is the equivalent PMS Standard color?  We need this information so that we can be sure we get the color correct on the new models.

LTM,
Ric"

LTM, who will now go back to chasing dust bunnies,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

[C.W. Herndon]

Monty, thanks for the "new"(old) information about the color of the paint on the Electra.

[C.W. Herndon]

Hi Monty.
I looked up the 595-12197 Federal Standard paint code for the International Orange paint that was cited as being on AE's Electra and came up with the colors below. The first came from this site and the second from this one. While the color is called "International Orange", it looks pretty RED to me.

[Mark Appel]

For reference, the Golden Gate Bridge is International Orange. Kind of a lighter brick red...