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Author Topic: Malaysian Flight 370  (Read 391306 times)

JNev

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #195 on: April 09, 2014, 03:37:16 PM »

"Unquestionably" located now per FoxNoise.

Excellent find.
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #196 on: April 09, 2014, 07:47:58 PM »

Sorry, I don't click-on Fox.  Are there any new facts?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #197 on: April 09, 2014, 07:52:23 PM »

Sorry, I don't click-on Fox.  Are there any new facts?

FOX is merely quoting the opinion of an "expert."  We won't get to "unquestionably" until we have wreckage in hand or conclusively identified in imagery.
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Dale O. Beethe

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #198 on: April 09, 2014, 09:16:28 PM »

Not to defend Fox here, but they did make it clear in the article that it's the "expert's opinion" that these pings couldn't be from anything else.  As Ric said, the only way we'll know for sure is when they find identifiable wreckage.  Sort of like AE, until you have identifiable wreckage, or something equally persuasive, we won't know for sure.  Hopefully proof will be coming soon in both cases!
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #199 on: April 10, 2014, 01:38:45 AM »

As I understand it the objective is to narrow down the search area by homing in as much as they can on the 'black box' pings. That way when they put the UAV into the water they will have a better idea of the sea floor topography and a smaller area to cover.
If they do locate the wreckage so soon I will be mightily impressed, good effort all round by lots of countries and people. I was fearing another two year hunt like flight AF-447.
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JNev

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #200 on: April 10, 2014, 05:49:31 AM »

Not to defend Fox here, but they did make it clear in the article that it's the "expert's opinion" that these pings couldn't be from anything else.  As Ric said, the only way we'll know for sure is when they find identifiable wreckage.  Sort of like AE, until you have identifiable wreckage, or something equally persuasive, we won't know for sure.  Hopefully proof will be coming soon in both cases!

What Fox said... yes.

The whole exercise goes some way to show how there's no substitute for 'hands on' evidence - there have been experts looking in opposite directions on this one for some time - although the deep sea loss has gotten the lion's share of attention.  Perhaps now that will soon be validated, but not until 'hands on'.
- Jeff Neville

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #201 on: April 10, 2014, 07:13:36 AM »

The total lack, so far, of floating debris seems odd.  If you assume that the smaller the pieces, the harder they are to spot, you might speculate that any floating pieces are small which, in turn, suggests that the impact with the ocean was at a very high speed. If that's the case, the wreckage on the ocean bottom will also be in small pieces, making them extremely difficult to find.  If the pinging stops it may be impossible to locate wreckage.
BTW, the Bluefin 21 AUV to be used in the search appears to be the exact same unit that we used in 2012 - and you know how THAT turned out.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #202 on: April 10, 2014, 07:21:43 AM »

BTW, the Bluefin 21 AUV to be used in the search appears to be the exact same unit that we used in 2012 - and you know how THAT turned out.

Well ... some people are just slow learners?

LTM, who finds dry paint pretty interesting these days,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 219 CER
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Doug Giese

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #203 on: April 10, 2014, 11:53:23 AM »

The total lack, so far, of floating debris seems odd.

What if the plane did a 'soft' landing on the water, like Capt. Sully did on the Hudson?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #204 on: April 10, 2014, 12:04:54 PM »

The total lack, so far, of floating debris seems odd.

What if the plane did a 'soft' landing on the water, like Capt. Sully did on the Hudson?

There Indian Ocean is not the Hudson.  A ditching in open ocean by an airplane the size of a 777 that left the airplane intact like Sully's little A320 is almost inconceivable.
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JNev

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #205 on: April 10, 2014, 12:28:02 PM »

The total lack, so far, of floating debris seems odd.  If you assume that the smaller the pieces, the harder they are to spot, you might speculate that any floating pieces are small which, in turn, suggests that the impact with the ocean was at a very high speed. If that's the case, the wreckage on the ocean bottom will also be in small pieces, making them extremely difficult to find.  If the pinging stops it may be impossible to locate wreckage.
BTW, the Bluefin 21 AUV to be used in the search appears to be the exact same unit that we used in 2012 - and you know how THAT turned out.

Agree and this oceanic loss still isn't confirmed. 

I'll spare us my thoughts on how these things get handled and communicated by various guvmints as 'foil hat territory', but it's still possible that "we'll never know for sure", despite the polished apple that's been put before us about the Indian Ocean.

But of course any debris had time to drift, it's true, and eventually and largely sink - been a month now.  And of course, short of finding debris, this apple will be hard for some - me for one, to swallow.
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James G. Stoveken

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #206 on: April 10, 2014, 12:44:00 PM »

A ditching in open ocean by an airplane the size of a 777 that left the airplane intact like Sully's little A320 is almost inconceivable.

"Almost" being key.  Before Sully, the scenario of a jet running into a flock of birds over NYC, losing both engines, landing intact in the Hudson River without any loss of life and very few minor injuries was "almost inconceivable".  But it happened.  Just sayin'...
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JNev

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #207 on: April 10, 2014, 02:02:46 PM »

A ditching in open ocean by an airplane the size of a 777 that left the airplane intact like Sully's little A320 is almost inconceivable.

"Almost" being key.  Before Sully, the scenario of a jet running into a flock of birds over NYC, losing both engines, landing intact in the Hudson River without any loss of life and very few minor injuries was "almost inconceivable".  But it happened.  Just sayin'...

Consider that a soft ditching (is that a contradiction in terms or what, Sully notwithstanding) isn't too likely in the likely event of the 777 being a big lawn dart by the time it ran out of fuel and piled in sans-pilot (just assumin')...

Dead bird plummeting into an area of nearly always ragged seas wouldn't (there's that dangerous word) be pretty.
- Jeff Neville

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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #208 on: April 10, 2014, 02:12:11 PM »

There is also this.  A skilled ditching requires a skilled pilot in control who wants to live.  Under what possible scenario could that be the case for MH370?
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JNev

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Re: Malaysian Flight 370
« Reply #209 on: April 10, 2014, 03:08:54 PM »

There is also this.  A skilled ditching requires a skilled pilot in control who wants to live.  Under what possible scenario could that be the case for MH370?

One where it never deviated the way it did... good point, kind of sums up that likelihood.
- Jeff Neville

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