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Author Topic: Possible Wing Flap  (Read 132416 times)

Tim Mellon

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Possible Wing Flap
« on: September 10, 2013, 06:10:56 PM »

Sorry, everybody, but I feel I must bring the following to your attention: a newly discovered aircraft component from the 2012 Extra High Definition video that bears a remarkable resemblance to a wing flap, standing upright, with the trailing edge up.

It shows up even better in the TIF file.



Tim
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« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 07:02:52 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2013, 07:59:46 PM »

Yes Tim, that piece of coral does bear some resemblance to an airplane wing flap, but not a Lockheed Electra wing flap.  Like many aircraft of that era, the Lockheed Model 10 had split-flaps.  They were not wedge or airfoil shaped like your piece of coral.  They were just flat aluminum sheet as clearly shown in these screen shots from film of NR16020 landing at Burbank.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 11:08:27 PM »

You're probably correct as to flap, Ric. I should have said possible flap or aileron.

However, I've never seen a piece of coral with two straight parallel edges, each perpendicular to a third edge, and the one edge looking almost razor-sharp.

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Chris Johnson

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2013, 01:34:19 AM »

Is it coral though? Niku is after all a sea mount (volcano) and is made up near the surface of Holocene igneous rocks.  Casting my mind back 30 years to studying Geography and Geology at school I believe that some lava types extruding under water cool into angular rock features.  This could be such a feature exposed through erosion. 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2013, 06:39:47 AM »

*rolls eyes*

LTM, who knows what he doesn't know,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2013, 08:21:45 AM »

However, I've never seen a piece of coral with two straight parallel edges, each perpendicular to a third edge, and the one edge looking almost razor-sharp.

You're so narrowly focused on one segment of one dive that you apparently don't recall that we saw hundreds of pieces of coral that looked like they might be sheet aluminum.  We were finding what looked like "wreckage from the plane" every couple of minutes. We soon learned that coral is great at mimicking man-made shapes.  Attached are a few examples from other dives.

You're welcome to post your proposed identification of objects in photos but pointing out vague similarities in shapes without regard to scale doesn't cut it.  For an example of how to present a possible identification please see Bevington Object Update.  If you think the object in the video is an aileron, show us that the object looks exactly like and is the same size as an Electra aileron. To me it does not look like an aluminum structure. It looks like a slab of coral very much like the hundreds of other slabs of coral we saw.
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JNev

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2013, 10:37:11 AM »

Nice castle.  Old tire tread?  What is that guy squinting at?  Ain't nature a stinka...
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« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 10:51:23 AM by Jeff Neville »
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2013, 02:41:12 PM »

Tim
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2013, 02:58:15 PM »

Below is a drawing of the structure of the outer wing of the Electra, according to Harney. Station 4 represents the outer end of the right aileron, station 3 the inner end.

The proportion of the leading edge of the aileron to the fore-aft width of the aileron at station #4 is almost exactly 1:4. This corresponds to the ratio of these two dimensions in the capture reproduced below. In addition, the camber drawn by Harney is true to the camber on the surface of the object nearest the viewer.

Furthermore, on the end of the aileron near the leading edge (i.e., at the bottom), one can make out a circle which most probably corresponds to the hinge attachment point.

Close examination of the trailing edge of the "possible" aileron reveals parallel vertical lines, stringers in the exact location to match the rivet spacing of the skin, approximately one per inch along each row of rivets on the aileron.

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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2013, 03:10:44 PM »


You're so narrowly focused on one segment of one dive that you apparently don't recall that we saw hundreds of pieces of coral that looked like they might be sheet aluminum.  We were finding what looked like "wreckage from the plane" every couple of minutes. We soon learned that coral is great at mimicking man-made shapes.  Attached are a few examples from other dives.


With respect, Ric, I do not believe your pictures are apposite here, as they all reflect sheets of (metal?) (coral?) rather than a three dimensional object. They are also at a much shallower depth (per the ambient light) than the object I have noted. Since none of these objects were retrieved by the ROV, I do not believe you can assert that they consist of coral, any more than you would permit me to assert that they are made of metal.




Tim
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2013, 03:25:27 PM »


Nobody here wants that thing to be an Electra aileron or flap more than I do, trust me - but I cannot say reliably that it is; I think I can say reliably that with a high degree of confidence that it is a calved piece of volcanic rock as Chris has described.  Or it could be coral for all I can tell - and it is very likely the case that mother nature has most cleverly used her eons of geologic and faunal time and material to create an image that my mind longs to see.



Jeff, as I pointed out to Chris "in another venue", I highly doubt the object in question is a volcanic outcrop for the following reason: if you examine the bottom of the right end of the object, you can see a slight shadow between the object and the surface below, which indicates that the two are spatially separated (IMHO).

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Chuck Lynch

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 05:20:01 PM »

Looks like a rock to me.
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R F Wade

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Re: Possible Wing Flap Please, dear Lord, let this nightmare end!
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 06:04:24 PM »

/rolls eyes

Looks like a rock to me as well.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 06:34:52 PM »

In addition to the "possible aileron", there appear to be two unrelated boxes adjacent, one with what looks like a toggle switch on the right end.
Tim
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« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 11:20:46 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Wing Flap
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 07:13:08 PM »


You're so narrowly focused on one segment of one dive that you apparently don't recall that we saw hundreds of pieces of coral that looked like they might be sheet aluminum.  We were finding what looked like "wreckage from the plane" every couple of minutes. We soon learned that coral is great at mimicking man-made shapes.  Attached are a few examples from other dives.


With respect, Ric, I do not believe your pictures are apposite here, as they all reflect sheets of (metal?) (coral?) rather than a three dimensional object. They are also at a much shallower depth (per the ambient light) than the object I have noted. Since none of these objects were retrieved by the ROV, I do not believe you can assert that they consist of coral, any more than you would permit me to assert that they are made of metal.

Tim, there were literally hundreds of these sheets.  In many cases they looked so convincing that we "swam" up to them to get a closer look, only to discover that they were just coral.
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