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Author Topic: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund  (Read 617446 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #600 on: June 22, 2014, 02:41:59 PM »

Just out of curiosity, why would Tighar remain friends with Mr. Mellon,

TIGHAR was never friends with Mr. Mellon.  He was a major contributor to Niku VII for which we were grateful.  Our relationship might be described as gentlemanly and cordial. After he filed his lawsuit we did not ban him from the TIGHAR Forum or revoke his membership in the organization. His postings on the Forum have proved to be invaluable in building our defense against his lawsuit.   There's an expression about holding your friends close .......
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Monty Fowler

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #601 on: June 23, 2014, 07:21:51 AM »

The main thing I took away from those well-reasoned filings was that Mellon admitted under oath that he didn't even think about suing until TIGHAR curtailed his discussions on the forum about what he thought he saw on the underwater video. I can't remember exactly now, but I think the tipping point may have been the supposed plastic bags over the supposed heads of the supposed corpses of Amelia and Fred, coupled with the supposed nitrogen tank and references to a supposed suicide.

Still, I would like to see the transcript of his deposition. I'm sure it will make for fascinating *cough* reading.

LTM, who knows the human waste can be a terrible thing to mind,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 218 ECSP

Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 07:26:06 AM by Monty Fowler »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #602 on: June 23, 2014, 07:44:46 AM »

Still, I would like to see the transcript of his deposition. I'm sure it will make for fascinating *cough* reading.

The only portions of his depositions that are public are what were quoted in the "Exhibits" that accompanied the dispositive motions. Attached are the Exhibits that quote his deposition.
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Paul March

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #603 on: June 23, 2014, 09:07:11 AM »

The lack of scientific evidence on the part of the Plaintiff is at a level beyond comprehension. However, more problematic is the argument regarding what TIGHAR "should" have done. It seems to me that the Plaintiff is making an argument that science is based on finding an expert that validates your opinions rather than allowing the evidence to direct the investigation.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #604 on: June 23, 2014, 09:10:25 AM »

The lack of scientific evidence on the part of the Plaintiff is at a level beyond comprehension. However, more problematic is the argument regarding what TIGHAR "should" have done. It seems to me that the Plaintiff is making an argument that science is based on finding an expert that validates your opinions rather than allowing the evidence to direct the investigation.

The blood trickling from the corners of my mouth is from me biting my tongue.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #605 on: June 23, 2014, 09:14:21 AM »

One of TIGHAR's experts summed it up best - the chance of the coral lumps not being coral lumps is "vanishingly small."

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP

Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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JNev

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #606 on: June 23, 2014, 11:00:08 AM »

The lack of scientific evidence on the part of the Plaintiff is at a level beyond comprehension. However, more problematic is the argument regarding what TIGHAR "should" have done. It seems to me that the Plaintiff is making an argument that science is based on finding an expert that validates your opinions rather than allowing the evidence to direct the investigation.

Well, of course.  How else?   :P
- Jeff Neville

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Greg Daspit

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #607 on: June 23, 2014, 01:36:19 PM »

My opinion of the arguments:
It’s still weird to me that there are both a Negligence and a Fraud claim. It seems to me if there were any evidence there would only be one or the other.
Regarding Fraud:
It still seems the main argument is only Mr. Mellon’s opinion of what he sees in images. Which include what he claims is AE plane parts and parts of AE and FN wrapped in cellophane. It’s okay to have an opinion but I believe to prove fraud, Mr. Mellon has to provide evidence TIGHAR saw AE’s plane and hid the fact that they saw it. No evidence was provided for that. None. But the attorney kept asking for any evidence. In a really bizarre answer in the Q&A exchange Mr. Mellon did argue the Cook photo and Bevington photo were evidence. Both are photos and only an opinion can be offered of what’s in them(again). Mr. Mellon does not seem sure either photo shows airplane parts but cited them as evidence of fraud anyway. That is really a strange argument.
Also the Cook photo was not seen until after his donation and if the Bevington photo led him to believe the plane was nearby then it can’t be fraud since he thinks the plane is nearby. The argument makes no sense.
Here is the kicker to how ridiculous this argument is. Even if you recovered an actual part that is what Mr. Mellon says it is, it still does not prove fraud. At a minimum you have to prove TIGHAR determined for a fact that Amelia Earhart’s aircraft parts were found before the donation. There is no evidence of this whatsoever.

Regarding Negligence:
It appears the argument is that TIGHAR should have hired a better expert. (one that sees what Mr. Mellon sees). Maybe if you are wealthy and have a lot of money you can hire expert after expert until you find one that will say what you want. But regardless I doubt everyone will agree one expert is the unquestioned authority.  Yet even the “experts” Mellon hired (with funds TIGHAR does not have to waste on) do not claim the plane was definitely found, only that shapes are consistent with parts from the plane.  Their analysis had caveats too.  The additional experts TIGHAR were forced to hire to defend itself question the methods used by Mr. Mellon’s expert’s.  Competing experts, and questioning who is the more qualified expert, seems to be a good reason this kind of approach was a concern in the beginning.  Someone can always suggest a better way to do things but to me TIGHAR was being a good steward of the gifts given to it.  This is a ridiculous lawsuit and it is a real shame that valuable resources need to be allocated to it. Hopefully the judge puts an end to it, sooner better than later
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« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 01:43:37 PM by Greg Daspit »
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Nancy Marilyn Gould

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #608 on: June 23, 2014, 06:06:37 PM »

So what's the next big step?  A trial? When?  What's the timeline of this thing?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #609 on: June 23, 2014, 07:09:20 PM »

So what's the next big step?  A trial? When?  What's the timeline of this thing?
The filing of these motions was the next big step.  If the motions are granted it's over (unless there's an appeal). If at least one of the motions is not granted then we go to trial - scheduled to begin on August 25.  So it could be over soon or it could drag out all summer.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #610 on: June 23, 2014, 07:22:24 PM »

I'd say Casper is lovely in the summer. That's actually true. Kinda.

But the Magnificent 7 are not going to have to ride again. I will go to sleep tonight secure in that knowledge.

LTM, who knows why he's doing what he's doing,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Jeff Buttke

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #611 on: June 24, 2014, 11:01:35 AM »


Here is the kicker to how ridiculous this argument is.

To me the kicker to the ridiculousness  is that he simultaneously contends that TIGHAR found the plane(the fraud) and that TIGHAR  was too incompetent to find the plane (the negligence).    To make one claim means he cannot in good faith be serious about the other.

Of course considering he believes toilet paper can survive submerged in sea water for 70+ years I am not sure we should evaluate his assertions in such logical terms.

I know everyone here is a bit frustrated that TIGHAR's time and resources are spent on this obvious tripe so to cheer up imagine this..:

1. The how entertaining  it would be to see Mr Mellon or his experts take the stand and repeat and respond to questions on these claims.
for example...
Lawyer :What steps did TIGHAR take to conceal the 2010 video ?
Witness : They posted it to YouTube.

or

2. The mess my septic system would give me if toilet paper was so durable.





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Kent Beuchert

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #612 on: June 24, 2014, 03:29:29 PM »

If motions are granted, any possibility of suing Mellon for bringing frivolous or
harrassing lawsuit ?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #613 on: June 24, 2014, 05:22:19 PM »

If motions are granted, any possibility of suing Mellon for bringing frivolous or
harrassing lawsuit ?

No, not under Wyoming law.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #614 on: June 24, 2014, 06:16:19 PM »

If motions are granted, any possibility of suing Mellon for bringing frivolous or harrassing lawsuit ?

That's the common reaction most of us here have had to this sad little enterprise of Mellon's - You sued us, you ^$%#@*&+@, so we'll sue you! I have this to say: TIGHAR is better than that.

In this self-centered, always-ready-to-be-offended world, it is all too easy to sue anyone for virtually anything, no matter how ridiculous the allegations or imagined wrong may be. Some lawyer, somewhere, will take the case, for the billiable hours and self-enrichment, if nothing else. All it takes is money, and if money is all you have to offer the world, then does it matter, really, how it's spent?

I know why Mr. Mellon has done what he's done, to my satisfaction.

This entire episode won't even register as a blip on the history books when all is said and finally done. The People, without Mr. Mellon's assistance, will find Amelia and Fred. I am proud to be part of a facts-driven, head-straight-on-its-shoulders organization such as TIGHAR.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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