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Author Topic: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund  (Read 617490 times)

Greg Daspit

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #225 on: August 17, 2013, 10:53:52 PM »

Maybe I'm just confused, but it strikes me to wonder which it is that Tim contends?  Which be ye, TIGHAR, thief, or knave?  On one hand, the suit alleges that TIGHAR is accused of 'knowing' it is the wreck in that footage, and on the other that she is merely too incompetent to see what is so obviously there to Tim and his own expert(s).

I don't think you are alone in being confused by this. I think that may be one of the things the Judge wants clarified on the 27th.
The lack of evidence and vague nature of the lawsuit is probably the reason to paw thru TIGHAR's research. It looks like a fishing expedition.
All IMHO.
3971R
 
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Greg Daspit

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #226 on: August 17, 2013, 11:59:14 PM »

And of course we can't forget the rolls of toilet paper, the musical instruments and cases, and lord knows what else Tim has "seen" in the  video footage. Interesting that none of those items were ever listed in the Luke Field inventory, and why would you leave parachutes behind, yet take along a banjo???

Good point. Bringing bulky musical instruments on the flight and toilet paper surviving being exposed to water for 73 years or if sealed not imploding at 300 meters shows lack of credibility and should not be forgotten when considering the other claimed objects. Not to mention that the image Tim suggests is a toilet paper roll doesn't even look like a toilet paper roll. It has a hole and a part of a curve next to it from the lines he drew over it. The other shapes with it and around it that don't fit the shape of a toilet paper roll are ignored.  So you have a bit of a curve and a hole in the same image. So is this curve and hole that has the color and texture of the other coral around it toilet paper or coral? Every image I look at that Tim posted has these same problems. Lack of scale, texture of coral, color of coral, lack of proportion, lack of a 3rd dimension and lack of features.
I just can't see how someone, "expert" or not, can claim to be 100% sure that these are airplane parts. And so sure they sue someone for not seeing the same thing or sue someone for seeing the same thing and not telling them. (You're right Jeff. It cannot be both)
3971R
 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #227 on: August 18, 2013, 11:39:10 AM »

*dusting off a bad haiku he remembers from somewhere* Forum members can decide for themselves who this is directed at:

"Know, stranger, that all you will confront is strange - and in your own image."

LTM, who knows with side of strange that he is firmly on,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #228 on: August 18, 2013, 11:51:32 AM »

I don't pretend to know Tim's motives but I do know a couple of undeniable facts:
• For all his talk about the full-resolution 2010 video, Tim first saw what he says is airplane wreckage in the 2 minute half-resolution Wire & Rope video.
• Tim, by his own admission, is not an expert in imagery interpretation but the wreckage was, and presumably still is, visible to him in that 2 minute video.
• At the time Tim decided to make his contribution in March 2012, the Wire & Rope video had been publicly available on the TIGHAR YouTube channel since December 8, 2010.

The evidence which, according to Tim, made the expedition he decided to help fund unnecessary was publicly available for over a year before he decided to help support the expedition.  Regardless of whether there is airplane wreckage, etc. visible in the 2010 video (which I firmly maintain there is not) it would appear that Tim is suing me and TIGHAR for his own failure to do due diligence before making a one million dollar contribution to a nonprofit.
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #229 on: August 18, 2013, 09:20:15 PM »

Jeff.
You are one silver tongued devil!
Ted Campbell
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Wayne O'Neill

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #230 on: August 18, 2013, 10:01:48 PM »

Speaking of Watergate, I was watching some music videos with my kids on the weekend including the Beastie Boys “Sabotage” (lyrics include “I can't stand it, I know you planned it, I'm gonna set it straight, this Watergate…”). Well, this suspicious character appeared in the video (see attached pic) & I thought, “Hey, he’s kinda familiar”. So, the jig is up Gillespie or Sir Stewart Wallace or whoever you are…  ;)
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #231 on: August 18, 2013, 11:30:01 PM »

Jeff Neville,

Just received your 8/18/2013 @ 11:49 PM email.

Jeff, I can feel your frustration as a “moderator” and at the same time trying to stay neutral on the subject at hand.  However, Jeff you also have an obligation to keep everything pertinent to the subject of the web site up to date that deals with the TIGHAR hypothesis.

If there is someone in the TIGHAR camp that confesses his good intentions that went awry all of us will eventually find out who that person is and appropriate action will take place.  Nothing you can be held accountable for – there are bad apples among all of us, been there done that!

Regarding the “cloak and dagger” issue concerning the lawsuit against TIGHAR what less should we do to protect our interest?  The interest I am talking about is more then the “TIGHAR’s hypothesis” it is about the freedom of expression, the freedom of questions,etc.

I have to agree with you with regard to Ric’s sometimes intolerant reactions to certain postings.  He has a tendency to go off the deep end if it reflects directly on him or a decision he has made.  However, giving some time to reflect I have found that Ric will modify his stance on an issue to a more moderate perspective and take into account the more conservative input from others.  If you pass this onto Ric I am in big trouble, just kidding I think he knows where I come from!

In closing Jeff, you have done an admiral job of keeping the Web on a level keel and I don’t know anyone else with the patients and tactility that could do a better job.

With regard to your question of whether or not I have sent my estimation of where this lawsuit began, where it is currently or where it’s going directly to Ric.  The answer is no – I thought you were forwarding the significant postings on the web to Ric.  Give me the internet means to do so and I will.  However, Jeff if these postings came directly from you to Ric I would expect that your appreciation of your contribution to the overall program will be greatly enhanced – do it.

Ted Campbell
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #232 on: August 19, 2013, 07:10:44 AM »

Ted,
The above looks like a private message that you posted to the forum by mistake.  Feel free to remove it or not as you choose.  In any case, I'm not offended by your comments about me. 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #233 on: August 19, 2013, 07:37:36 AM »

In the end where such a passionate pursuit is involved, I realize somebody has to have some backbone about keeping it clean or we'll be overrun with trolls creating ghost discussions and stick man arguments.  I also got worn out trying to be a 'friend' to every malcontent that 'just needed to be more civil'.  It doesn't work.

You and Marty and the other moderators do a great job, but a year ago this forum was troll-infested due to my absence for several months while I was preparing for and conducting Niku VII. I'm the only one with the authority to do what needed to be done and as soon as I was back and had the time - I did it.  It got pretty bloody there for a while but I don't regret anything I did.  The forum is now a friendly, entertaining, intelligent and productive venue for honest debate and sound research.  The trolls still spew their invective but they're a distant howl from outside the walls.  I intend to keep it that way.
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Carolyn Hasenfratz

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #234 on: August 19, 2013, 09:30:28 AM »

Quote
I don't think you are alone in being confused by this.

That's why I brought up the issue of a mental health evaluation. It wasn't TIGHAR I was wondering about. I wasn't trying to be snarky, I was serious. We know the mental health of a defendant is an issue in a criminal trial. Since I don't know much about the law, can that be brought up in a civil trial, if one side has concerns about the other? Unfortunately I know more about mental health than I care to know and there appear to be signs here of something really wrong. But I'm not a doctor any more than I'm a lawyer - so I'm just asking questions.
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Carolyn Hasenfratz

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #235 on: August 19, 2013, 11:22:40 AM »

Thanks Jeff for your thoughtful response. I'm a member of a couple of non-profits (not TIGHAR, just a forum member and lurker of many years only posting recently). I'm watching how this case plays out with great interest because although the amounts of money involved are not as large, the non-profits I'm involved with engage in activities that are sometimes successful and sometimes not - historic preservation is the field. As you can imagine we engage in some campaigns that don't get us what we wanted. We try to be as true to the purpose of what donations were meant for as we can if a project falls through. Something in common with TIGHAR even if the fields and methods are different. We don't have many large donations but for example we did get one from (redacted) and fortunately that project worked out as planned. (redacted) didn't want us to publicize his donation at the time but since he's unfortunately not with us any more I guess it's ok to mention.) I will be learning from observing how this proceeds.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 12:48:52 PM by Ric Gillespie »
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Joshua Doremire

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #236 on: August 19, 2013, 11:49:50 AM »

You and Marty and the other moderators do a great job, but a year ago this forum was troll-infested due to my absence for several months while I was preparing for and conducting Niku VII. I'm the only one with the authority to do what needed to be done and as soon as I was back and had the time - I did it.  It got pretty bloody there for a while but I don't regret anything I did.  The forum is now a friendly, entertaining, intelligent and productive venue for honest debate and sound research.  The trolls still spew their invective but they're a distant howl from outside the walls.  I intend to keep it that way.

Great leaders delegate. May I suggest for your next leave of absence that you turn your dog’s loose on the trolls? Give yourself the final say when you get back if they get taken from the brig and walk the plank, but at least let them be thrown into the brig. Just make sure everyone shows some consideration for the new people who don’t have years of exposure to this project or forum.

Entertaining as this thread is it also shows me what TIGHAR is about.
TIGHAR # 4274R
 
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Joshua Doremire

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #237 on: August 19, 2013, 12:12:44 PM »

Thanks Jeff for your thoughtful response. I'm a member of a couple of non-profits (not TIGHAR, just a forum member and lurker of many years only posting recently). I'm watching how this case plays out with great interest because although the amounts of money involved are not as large, the non-profits I'm involved with engage in activities that are sometimes successful and sometimes not - historic preservation is the field. As you can imagine we engage in some campaigns that don't get us what we wanted. We try to be as true to the purpose of what donations were meant for as we can if a project falls through. Something in common with TIGHAR even if the fields and methods are different. We don't have many large donations but for example we did get one from (redacted) and fortunately that project worked out as planned. (* didn't want us to publicize his donation at the time but since he's unfortunately not with us any more I guess it's ok to mention.) I will be learning from observing how this proceeds.

I doubt it. Loose lips sink ships. Sometimes it is the one you are on. Think of the future donors you just told that ‘I will blab about you all over the internet’ after you are dead. If someone wants something done without their name on it they have their reasons. Their heirs or remaining trust may have a different opinion about going public.

Just ask the Harry Potter author JK Rowling who just settled a lawsuit against the law firm partner Gossage and the woman who made her pseudonym information public. 
TIGHAR # 4274R
 
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 04:02:53 PM by Jeff Neville »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #238 on: August 19, 2013, 12:16:23 PM »

Don't know if it will be of any help but I found this today. You have to scroll down past the Amazonian expedition to get to it...
http://kirkomrik.wordpress.com/


This must be the place
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #239 on: August 19, 2013, 12:47:32 PM »

Yes, I have just been informed of that Chris. Nice to see GL still posting though given the recent sad news. I'm in the same position regarding navigation, it's all a bit of a mystery to me without GPS. :(
This must be the place
 
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