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Author Topic: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund  (Read 524224 times)

Rob Seasock

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #135 on: July 25, 2013, 12:47:46 AM »

 "...75 years old toilet paper on the sea bottom."


 ....mmm....that have to be some pretty tough toilet paper... no way it could...but wait!

 ;D Lets turn the other cheek so to speak.

"My Experience With Her Majesty's Ministry Of Supply Toilet Paper" (I have a feeling that many of our Englander cousins across the pond can relate to this story) it goes something like this.

No Sh#t there I was, a young American airman at RAF Sculthorpe for exercise Flintlock 82, in this WWII hangar.  Ah, in the mens room specifically, ya know sittin down in a stall sending a message to higher headquarters.  Well paperwork time came and I reached over for the TP, it was like thin wax paper, the horror ( :o thinks how's this gonna work ???) and started laughing, sort of.  Stenciled on each and every 1 ply square was "HM Government Property".  To this day I wished I'd have liberated that roll as a souvenir.  End of story.

Turns out this stuff was tough, used from the 1930's to 1989, especially during the UK's time of postwar Austerity, in public facilities, government offices, schools and wasn't very popular with the Brits either. Many users had their own stenciled rolls. Being the diligent Tigharian researcher I've provided some links: 

IZAL Toilet Paper
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/household-products/izal-toilet-paper/422529/
Click on the 18 reviews some of which are quite humorous such as:
"Best paper in the world provided you know how to use it. Rather than dabbing and mopping with it as you would with conventional "Nancy boy" soft paper you need to do a bit of origami and form it into a small shovel and scoop away at your bum until it is sparkly clean and because of the medicated magic of Izal totally free of all known germs."
 :D Gotta love the English way with words "bit of origami"  "form it into a small shovel"


Lavatory Paper History & Stencils
http://www.ephemera-society.org.uk/articles/cloacopapyrology.html
My favorite TP square stencil ""Edinburgh Cleansing Department", posh, very posh.
WWII propaganda stencil-Hitler "Now I'm brownshirt all over".


TP Sheets inscribed by manufacturers or institutions.
http://bookhistory.blogspot.com/2008/02/collectanea-cloacopapyrologica-1.html


Manufactures List & Suppliers
http://bookhistory.blogspot.com/2005/12/cloacopapyrology.html
;D The manufactures list might be a crucial resource when  we find a screen capture of the toilet paper rolls in the 2010 ROV video.


 ;) Just think folks, we could have a whole CORAL ENCRUSTED DEBRIS FIELD OF TOILET PAPER down there!  :o  There could be rolls stenciled Gallagher, SS Norwich City (probably all burnt in the fire), PISS, NZ Survey.

Martin this is going to take some serious research, we might need a new thread or at the very least transfer this to Artifact Analysis: FAQ Fecal Material  & Coprolite.

LETS ROLL!
Rob





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Brano Lacika

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #136 on: July 25, 2013, 02:38:49 AM »

"My Experience With Her Majesty's Ministry Of Supply Toilet Paper" (I have a feeling that many of our Englander cousins across the pond can relate to this story) it goes something like this.

No Sh#t there I was, a young American airman at RAF Sculthorpe for exercise Flintlock 82, in this WWII hangar.  Ah, in the mens room specifically, ya know sittin down in a stall sending a message to higher headquarters.  Well paperwork time came and I reached over for the TP, it was like thin wax paper, the horror ( :o thinks how's this gonna work ???) and started laughing, sort of.  Stenciled on each and every 1 ply square was "HM Government Property".  To this day I wished I'd have liberated that roll as a souvenir.  End of story.


With all respect to His Majesty┬┤s property... this would still be not good enough to survive 75 years submerged at sea. If you really want to reach that characteristics, I would suggest KEVLAR or NYLON fabric, or better the HDPE foil...   8)

« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 02:45:41 AM by Brano Lacika »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #137 on: July 25, 2013, 04:13:21 AM »

This is the Internet.

No, it is a slice of a server that you access through the internet.

The things you find on the website are put here to serve TIGHAR's work.

If you can't grasp and follow the house rules, you may not stay in this house.

Quote
In a way it's freedom and in a way it's censorship.

If TIGHAR was the government, if TIGHAR ruled the whole of the internet, and if TIGHAR could stop you from publishing your ideas elsewhere, then and only then would it be censorship. 

Your right to free speech does not allow you to go into the TV station of your choice and use their equipment to broadcast your pearls of wisdom.  That is not censorship on the part of the TV station; it is stewardship of its resources.

Similarly, TIGHAR pays the freight to make this website accessible via the internet.  There are good reasons for making the investment and good reasons for protecting the investment.

The moderators act as referees do in professional sports.  No organized sport can be conducted without folks who watch over the field of play and who settle disputes on the spot so that play may resume as quickly as possible.  We call 'em as we see 'em, folks, and if you find that intolerable, please do find or create some other website that is more to your taste.  When you do, you may post a link to the "Better Earhart Forums" thread in the Chatterbox.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #138 on: July 25, 2013, 04:14:06 PM »

As a recent TIGHAR sponsor, I was eager to download the recent Niku high quality images and scrutinize them ...

Tim, I'm sorry you feel the way you do regarding the TIGHAR forums; I can't change that, but I would like to comment on the above part of your post. We are all waiting eagerly for a crack at the 1938 images - but please stop and think for a minute.

How did TIGHAR get those images? Were they generously donated? Had they been handled or processed in any way while they were being created that, at a later time, might have profound impacts on the information contained thereon? Could we be sure we got the maximum amount of information off of each negatiev if someone else did it for us?

The best answer to all of those questions was for TIGHAR to go to New Zealand itself - and that costs money. Quite a bit of money.   Easily $1,500 for one person to get there and back. TIGHAR was fortunate that a few members and forum contributors decided that this was important enough to be done quickly, and pitched in to help. Do any of them expect accolades for doing so? I doubt it; the ones I know of who pitched in certainly don't, they recognized the value of the information and contributed becuase they recognized the importance that getting this information had to moving our search for Amelia and Fred forward.

Others may have an issue with TIGHAR making the decision that only members at Researcher level or above would have access to the raw information. I have no such issue. To repeat my oft-stated mantra, "Talk is cheap. Answers are expensive." In an ideal world, all information would be freely gathered and freely shared. Unfortunately, none of us live in that world; at least when we're conscious, that is. I donate what I can, when I can, because I believe in TIGHAR's methods and I like the way it does business.

LTM, who knows that The People will find Amelia,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #139 on: July 25, 2013, 06:09:40 PM »

Please continue to use words that aren't easily understood by the working class to advance the cause if you wish to fail.

I don't even know how to respond to that except to say that we refuse to dumb-down the information we put out. The very idea that there is a "class" of potential supporters who don't understand big words is repugnant to me.
 
As a recent TIGHAR sponsor, I was eager to download the recent Niku high quality images and scrutinize them, but instead I'll just let my sponsorship expire and be done with it.

Our decision to make the hi-res photos available only to TIGHAResearchers and above was based on the requirement set by the New Zealand Air Force Museum that the photos be used only for TIGHAR research.

I don't feel part of "the club."

Maybe that's because TIGHAR is not a club.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 08:28:14 PM by Bruce Thomas »
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Joshua Doremire

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #140 on: July 29, 2013, 04:48:16 PM »

Irv,

Ric's Forum, Ric's Rules. No disagreement there.

I think where we differ is more related to what "coral" looks like. Also, my understanding of "methodology" contemplates using the best tools and data  available when seeking evidence. Ric has supplied the tools and data to me, but to no-one else. Nonetheless, I am contrained here from showing or discussing the results of their application.

My apologies for asking questions you are constrained from answering on here. 
TIGHAR # 4274R
 
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Matt Revington

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #141 on: July 30, 2013, 10:31:25 AM »

Any response from the court on the motion to dismiss?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #142 on: July 30, 2013, 10:36:47 AM »

Any response from the court on the motion to dismiss?

The other side has until Aug. 15 to file their response to our Motion to Dismiss.  The judge will then review both filings and make his decision. We just learned this morning that the Court has asked for oral arguments on Aug. 27.  This is a bit unusual and we're not sure what it means but we are pleased at this new development.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #143 on: July 30, 2013, 12:04:58 PM »

What we can HOPE this means is that the judge smells something rotten emanating from Casper, and wants to clear the air, and his docket, of this matter.

LTM, who never mastered holding his nose,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Scott C. Mitchell

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #144 on: July 30, 2013, 05:20:12 PM »

'Tim seems to have the burden of proving the bird was found. . .'
He may have a burden greater than that.  If his argument is that a fraud was perpetrated on him, he may have to prove that (1) what he thinks he is seeing is really tantamount to aircraft wreckage, and not just scattered artifacts, and (2) TIGHAR and Ric *knew* it was THE wreckage at the time Ric made his ask for Tim's contribution, and that Ric *intended* to deceive.  Another person's subjective state of mind can be as inscrutable as . . . well, as a seabed of coral.

Scott Mitchell
TIGHAR #3202
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #145 on: August 06, 2013, 09:04:58 AM »

As previously announced, the Court in Casper, WY has set a hearing for August 27 to hear oral arguments from attorneys on the Motion to Dismiss.   Although my presence is not required, I will be there to demonstrate TIGHAR's absolute rejection and denial of the allegations in Mr. Mellon's complaint.  I am pleased to say that TIGHAR stalwart Monty Fowler has informed me that he plans to travel across the country to be there as an expression of support.  This was entirely Monty's idea and I have no idea whether it would make an difference to the Court, but I'll be surprised if the media doesn't want to interview him.  If anyone else feels inspired by Monty's example please let us know.  I hear that Casper is lovely this time of year. ;D
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Tim Collins

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #146 on: August 06, 2013, 09:30:52 AM »

Forgive my obtuseness, and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but, what would the significance of this be beyond any other member of TIGHAR showing up to support the cause? 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #147 on: August 06, 2013, 09:37:05 AM »

Forgive my obtuseness, and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but, what would the significance of this be beyond any other member of TIGHAR showing up to support the cause?

None at all.  It's nothing more than a show of support (and a chance to have a beer together later).  I'm just throwing it out to let everyone know that they're welcome to come if they want to.  I'm looking forward to hearing the oral arguments.
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Stacy Galloway

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #148 on: August 06, 2013, 10:05:37 AM »

As previously announced, the Court in Casper, WY has set a hearing for August 27 to hear oral arguments from attorneys on the Motion to Dismiss.   Although my presence is not required, I will be there to demonstrate TIGHAR's absolute rejection and denial of the allegations in Mr. Mellon's complaint.  I am pleased to say that TIGHAR stalwart Monty Fowler has informed me that he plans to travel across the country to be there as an expression of support.  This was entirely Monty's idea and I have no idea whether it would make an difference to the Court, but I'll be surprised if the media doesn't want to interview him.  If anyone else feels inspired by Monty's example please let us know.  I hear that Casper is lovely this time of year. ;D

Yay, Monty! Your presence on this forum is always an inspiration, and I'm sure you're presence in court will be doubly so!
TIGHAR #4284R
 
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #149 on: August 06, 2013, 10:53:09 AM »

Ric,
Would you please give us details for the court appearance i.e. time and location, etc.  I may be in the area and may stop by.
Ted Campbell
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