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[Tim Mellon]

Jeff, bag lunches are fine.

Just please don't eat that hat prematurely....

[richie conroy]

Too True Tim 

[Tim Sharpe]

Hi Tim

It's Shocking for me because here in the UK, U can't sue someone or group and still participate in general conversation it's just not viable.

Because the accuser could actually use stuff that is said on forums against the defendant in a court of law

You see it all the time with Facebook Twitter etc

It's called "Freedom of Speech" over here in the States. We fought a war with you over that.

Congratulations on your royal baby.  And on the Sonar Target.

[richie conroy]

O Ay don't get me started on that

Our fellow men are fighting on the front line defending our countries against terrorists only get a mention when they die in Battle

Yet the royals have a baby and have 24 hour news coverage

What's wrong with this world ?

[Tim Sharpe]

O Ay don't get me started on that

Our fellow men are fighting on the front line defending our countries against terrorists only get a mention when they die in Battle

Yet the royals have a baby and have 24 hour news coverage

What's wrong with this world ?

Try living in an Empire that has military bases in over half of the countries in this world and its citizens can do nothing to change that because its national government is owned by corporate interests... but I digress... the royal baby is cute, and this post is off-topic. Delete.

[richie conroy]

Deleted 

Give peace a chance

Richie

[Ric Gillespie]

Sorry Ric, I know some control must be exercised but should the moderating not be confined to making sure there are no personal attacks, inappropriate materials such as pornography, inappropriate language, etc.  Does an opposing or non conformist view need to be banned?  You have said before in other posts that you let things go on for longer than you really wanted to but why cut it off if people are reading and contributing, for whatever reason they have.  Eventually, if the forum chooses then the thread dries up.  You have lots of threads with no new posts for months.

If the purpose of this Forum were merely to provide a Hyde Park for all opinions, then moderation could be limited to making sure that the discourse remains civil, but this Forum has a higher purpose.  The purpose of this Forum is to inform, invite comment, and promote responsible research that will help TIGHAR test the Niku Hypothesis and, we hope, move the investigation forward toward a conclusive solution to the Earhart mystery.  To do that the Forum must be moderated to keep the discourse methodologically and scientifically sound. We are fortunate to have a team of educated, erudite moderators who carry out that mandate.  Senior among them is Martin X. Moleski, Ph.D., SJ, who is responsible for overseeing the organization, civility and appropriateness of the postings.  As TIGHAR's Executive Director and leader of the Earhart investigation it is my responsibility to encourage and promote intelligent discussion that will help move the Earhart Project forward, whether through supporting evidence or soundly researched dissent.  When necessary I will cut off discussions that do not, in my opinion, meet that standard and I will ban individuals who, in my opinion, are harming the legitimate function of the Forum.
Perhaps what you are looking for is a soap box.  This Forum is a research tool.

Is this why Mr. Mellon is suing you?  Because you disagree with him and he with you over the moderated forum concept?

If so, I respectfully suggest that he drop his lawsuit and start his own forum.

[Irvine John Donald]

Okay Ric. That's probably the clearest definition of this forum's purpose I have read.

Mr. Mellon, is this also your understanding of the forum's purpose? Or was this a clarification for you too?  Does this clarification change your reasoning behind the law suit? 

[Tim Mellon]

Irv,

Ric's Forum, Ric's Rules. No disagreement there.

I think where we differ is more related to what "coral" looks like. Also, my understanding of "methodology" contemplates using the best tools and data  available when seeking evidence. Ric has supplied the tools and data to me, but to no-one else. Nonetheless, I am contrained here from showing or discussing the results of their application.

[Brano Lacika]

Dan,  I happen to disagree with Mr. Mellon's video findings.  I cannot believe that even he sees those items.  Rolls of toilet paper?  But I firmly believe in his right to express that opinion.  In fact if he did not have this forum to express it in then we would not be sharing his thoughts tonight.

I would tend to agree with you regarding the freedom of opinion expression, but... TIGHAR is known ( even here in Europe ) for its openness, fair attitude and scientific methods of research. Good reputation is much more important for scientists than one would expect... once you lost your credit and you finished... ( maybe little bit of exaggeration here, but still... ). Would you let someone to damage your good reputation to claim the obvious nonsenses on your web site, like seeing the 75 years old toilet paper on the sea bottom? If it´s my forum I wouldn´t... Any forensic expertise should easily prove, that toilet paper simply can not last 75 in the seawater. ( I´m not that sure for human bones, but most probably the same is true for it as well... Hiking boots..., ahem... if of course they are not made of GORE-TEX would be long since decayed. Certain level of seriousness must be kept, otherwise one should not be surprised to be out of the debate...

[Scott C. Mitchell]

Before we dismiss any hypothesis out of hand, it might help if we know more about the science.  Take coral formation, for example -- will it assume the shape of the organic object it is formed upon, so that even if the underlying object has long since disintegrated whether that original object is human remains or wood, the coral outline will be a surviving relic of that original object?

Scott Mitchell
Tighar #3292

[Brano Lacika]

Before we dismiss any hypothesis out of hand, it might help if we know more about the science.  Take coral formation, for example -- will it assume the shape of the organic object it is formed upon, so that even if the underlying object has long since disintegrated whether that original object is human remains or wood, the coral outline will be a surviving relic of that original object?

Scott Mitchell
Tighar #3292

I would say that this might be true for larger and more solid object and within a bit longer period of time. But, do the coral grow on the surface of soft organic material like paper or leather? ( I assume hiking boot being made of leather ). Paper deteriorate too quickly, coral is not that fast...Having a long enough look into the coral pictures you will see a plenty of interesting shapes. But can you achieve the level of certainty to base the lawsuit on?

[Tim Sharpe]

Without a doubt Mr. Sharpe, Mr Mellon made the expedition and it's new finding possible.  Grateful for that.  When the final answer is found, he would have been one of those responsible for it's success.  Now that will be at least tarnished....to say the least.  That's ashamed.  Of course that is just my opinion.

I am hopeful that this is just an issue of "forum decorum" and can be solved.

But have you ever been shut out from discussion on a forum because your viewpoint didn't meet the standards of that forum?  I have.  And for what I feel was a harmless comment.  Pissed me off.  I didn't have the power to take legal action in court, however. I just moved on. "It's someone else's website, they have the right" and all that jazz, despite taking money from their subscribers. It's a delicate balancing act between private property and free speech.

"It's our forum, disagree and don't let the door hit your rear end on the way out."

This is the Internet.  In a way it's freedom and in a way it's censorship.  I don't think humankind has been here before, at least not at this pace.  Both sides of the argument seem valid and at the same time invalid.

Strange times we live in.  Don't get me wrong, I understand both sides.  It only really matters when big money is involved.

[Tim Sharpe]

... You can't say its an Open forum then cut discussion because you don't want the discussion to continue.  ...

This is not now and never has been an "Open Forum."  It has been moderated from day one.

I'm the one who assembled and maintain the software to run the Forum.  I know whereof I speak.

It's this kind of a post that makes me wonder about TIGHAR. I don't understand how private funds can be solicited in this way. It does not make one feel "welcome."

I know that from "whereof" I speak, this is not indicative of an inclusive club, but an exclusive one.

Please continue to use words that aren't easily understood by the working class to advance the cause if you wish to fail.

As a recent TIGHAR sponsor, I was eager to download the recent Niku high quality images and scrutinize them, but instead I'll just let my sponsorship expire and be done with it. I don't feel part of "the club."  I know whereof I speak.

Moleski: If you hurry you can delete this post before Ric sees it.  Early to bed, early to rise. It wouldn't be the first post of mine you've deleted.

[Rob Seasock]

 "...75 years old toilet paper on the sea bottom."


 ....mmm....that have to be some pretty tough toilet paper... no way it could...but wait!

  Lets turn the other cheek so to speak.

"My Experience With Her Majesty's Ministry Of Supply Toilet Paper" (I have a feeling that many of our Englander cousins across the pond can relate to this story) it goes something like this.

No Sh#t there I was, a young American airman at RAF Sculthorpe for exercise Flintlock 82, in this WWII hangar.  Ah, in the mens room specifically, ya know sittin down in a stall sending a message to higher headquarters.  Well paperwork time came and I reached over for the TP, it was like thin wax paper, the horror ( thinks how's this gonna work ) and started laughing, sort of.  Stenciled on each and every 1 ply square was "HM Government Property".  To this day I wished I'd have liberated that roll as a souvenir.  End of story.

Turns out this stuff was tough, used from the 1930's to 1989, especially during the UK's time of postwar Austerity, in public facilities, government offices, schools and wasn't very popular with the Brits either. Many users had their own stenciled rolls. Being the diligent Tigharian researcher I've provided some links: 

IZAL Toilet Paper
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/household-products/izal-toilet-paper/422529/
Click on the 18 reviews some of which are quite humorous such as:
"Best paper in the world provided you know how to use it. Rather than dabbing and mopping with it as you would with conventional "Nancy boy" soft paper you need to do a bit of origami and form it into a small shovel and scoop away at your bum until it is sparkly clean and because of the medicated magic of Izal totally free of all known germs."
  Gotta love the English way with words "bit of origami"  "form it into a small shovel"


Lavatory Paper History & Stencils
http://www.ephemera-society.org.uk/articles/cloacopapyrology.html
My favorite TP square stencil ""Edinburgh Cleansing Department", posh, very posh.
WWII propaganda stencil-Hitler "Now I'm brownshirt all over".


TP Sheets inscribed by manufacturers or institutions.
http://bookhistory.blogspot.com/2008/02/collectanea-cloacopapyrologica-1.html


Manufactures List & Suppliers
http://bookhistory.blogspot.com/2005/12/cloacopapyrology.html
The manufactures list might be a crucial resource when  we find a screen capture of the toilet paper rolls in the 2010 ROV video.


  Just think folks, we could have a whole CORAL ENCRUSTED DEBRIS FIELD OF TOILET PAPER down there!    There could be rolls stenciled Gallagher, SS Norwich City (probably all burnt in the fire), PISS, NZ Survey.

Martin this is going to take some serious research, we might need a new thread or at the very least transfer this to Artifact Analysis: FAQ Fecal Material  & Coprolite.

LETS ROLL!
Rob