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Author Topic: A History of Tinned Food  (Read 58763 times)

Matt Revington

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2013, 12:27:35 PM »

Thanks Dan.  I do have a concern that dates some new canning development was implemented in the US or England may not relate well to when a mutton canning operation in New Zealand got around to changing their methods.  What would be useful, like in the case of the ointment pot, is a dated can from that period.  Is Irvine and Stephenson , who owned the St George label, still in business, do they have records/sample cans that go back to that period? 
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Dan Swift

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2013, 02:14:23 PM »

Was hoping it was like 1937. 
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2013, 07:42:43 PM »

Ric,
Please tell us what you think it would cost to store all the AE artifacts in an enert atmosphere  i.e. so we don't experance futher degragation of tin cans, etc.

As this mission goes on, the earlier findings start to degrad and may become useless in their value in putting new discoveries to a test.

Very concerned,
Ted Campbell
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2013, 08:40:39 PM »

Please tell us what you think it would cost to store all the AE artifacts in an enert atmosphere  i.e. so we don't experance futher degragation of tin cans, etc.

As this mission goes on, the earlier findings start to degrad and may become useless in their value in putting new discoveries to a test.

There are very few artifacts that are subject to any significant degradation.  The can would not have degraded to the extent it has if we had collected it when we first found it in 1996, but at that time we didn't understand the significance of the site.  We didn't collect the can until years later and by then it had broken down in Niku's severe environment.  Storing all of the artifacts in an inert atmosphere would be cumbersome and prohibitively expensive. 
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Matt Revington

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2013, 06:52:44 AM »

Just makes it a bit more challenging.  Did the can shape and size change or did it remain the same?  Did they produce all the way through or stop?  If so when?

Who else made similar products?

What makes TIGHAR think its that one?

Are you asking why does TIGHAR think its St George Roast mutton?  Wasn't the label found with the can?

Every time I think of EA or FN eating  canned roast mutton that had been sitting tropical heat for 10 years I get a bit queasy.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2013, 08:01:33 AM »

Are you asking why does TIGHAR think its St George Roast mutton?  Wasn't the label found with the can?

Good Lord no. All we found was the rusty old can and some small pieces of bone (identified as having come from a goat or sheep) nearby.  The distinctive dimensions and proportions of the can match the dimensions and proportions of the canned roast mutton label and we know that at least some canned roast mutton was sold "bone-in for flavor."  So it does look like someone had a can of "bone-in" roast mutton at the Seven Site. Question is, who?  Dating the can might help.

Every time I think of EA or FN eating  canned roast mutton that had been sitting tropical heat for 10 years I get a bit queasy.

Interesting point. The castaway died of something. Botulism?

Incidentally, Amelia Earhart's initials were (and still are) AE but lots of people reverse the letters because her name is pronounced Emilia Airhart.
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Matt Revington

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2013, 10:43:58 AM »


Every time I think of EA or FN eating  canned roast mutton that had been sitting tropical heat for 10 years I get a bit queasy.

Interesting point. The castaway died of something. Botulism?

Incidentally, Amelia Earhart's initials were (and still are) AE but lots of people reverse the letters because her name is pronounced Emilia Airhart.

I guess I was so nauseated by the thought of the mutton that I got confused.

This article from 1919, says that by that date  St George was using more modern canning techniques ( double seam closure instead of soldering) and was producing canned mutton. Of course nothing about the dimensions of the cans used etc

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=ODT19191120.2.93.55
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2013, 12:42:27 PM »

So do the remains have evidence of soldering, double seam closure or another method?

Looks like double seam.  I'll post some scans when I have a minute.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 08:33:53 PM by Ric Gillespie »
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Dave McDaniel

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2013, 06:33:47 AM »

I hope they find this guy.

http://news.yahoo.com/pacific-searched-british-man-ailing-boat-083317042.html

What I found interesting was this Vets post in the comments section concerning mutton and its apparent effects.

"This reminds me of an incident in WW2. My ship was headed in after 6 months away from the U.S. Supply vessels were over taxed so provisions on ships ran very low. Headed home reduced the urgency for resupply so we were rationing everything. Then some F.U. on another ship got his foot caught in a line and was pulled overboard. We were diverted to the rescue. It wasn't the delay in getting home that hurt the worst. We didn't find the sailor and we even ran out of toilet paper and Australian Beef (mutton). Since the "Beef" was a huge cause of a need for toilet paper it did balance out some. Crewmen even hid comic books for their personal use and officers guarded their heads to prevent theft of their supplies. There was no supply of corn cobs. I wonder how many people will understand the corn cob reference and remember the red corn cobs with the white corn cob seal of approval."

Dave
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2013, 09:03:23 AM »

It wasn't the delay in getting home that hurt the worst. We didn't find the sailor and we even ran out of toilet paper and Australian Beef (mutton).

My wife's father was also aboard a troop ship blessed with "Australian Beef."  To his dying day he wouldn't touch even a lamb chop.
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Matt Revington

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2013, 10:50:38 AM »

Just in case there is any doubt that tinned mutton would have been included in a ship's emergency supplies at the time here is part of the story of some Aussie sailors whose ship went down in the mid Pacific only a couple of years before the Norwich City ran aground

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19271003.2.104&srpos=1&e=-09-1927--11-1927--10--1----0amy+turner--
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19271005.2.29&srpos=3&e=-09-1927--11-1927--10--1----0mutton++epic--
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19271010.2.95&srpos=2&e=-09-1927--11-1927--10--1----0mutton++epic--

It was a hard life
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 10:53:26 AM by Matt Revington »
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Steve Lee

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2013, 11:16:56 AM »

Could the can be a Coast Guard throw-away? Ric mentioned that his wifes father ate mutton while in the military service. I found references saying that US Navy sailors ate canned mutton and didn't like it and had anickname for it. So maybe it was a Coast Guard item?

Whtwere the dimensions of the can--maybe we can find out if it matches canned goods the US servicemen at the Loran station might have eaten.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2013, 11:28:29 AM »

Could the can be a Coast Guard throw-away?

Yes.

What were the dimensions of the can--maybe we can find out if it matches canned goods the US servicemen at the Loran station might have eaten.

As best we can determine it was 2 inches high with a diameter of 4.5 inches.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 11:35:54 AM by Ric Gillespie »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2013, 11:35:34 AM »

Here are some more photos and notes from our earlier investigation of the can.  The arrows point to evidence that the can was opened by repeated, closely spaced punctures such as may have been made by a military P-38 type can opener.  Wikipedia says the P-38 was developed in 1942.  The Loran station on Gardner was built in 1944.  If the can was opened with a P-38 that argues strongly for it being of Coast Guard origin.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 11:41:25 AM by Ric Gillespie »
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Jeff Lange

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Re: A History of Tinned Food
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2013, 05:44:14 AM »

It was rather common for many jacknives of the time to have a can opener on one of the blades. Just a slightly curved hook with a pointed end, similar to the domestic ones without a wooden handle. My cub scout knife from the 1960's has one. So this could tie back to the remains of the knife.....
Jeff Lange

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