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Author Topic: The Road to Niku VIII  (Read 44087 times)

Tim Mellon

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2013, 10:23:59 AM »

I think that the terms of the Agreement with the Republic of Kiribati, if nothing else, speak against that.
But most of all, there are numerous and very tricky ethical issues. Essentially, it would imply making two people who possibly died lonely and under terrible circumstances into an object of commercial exploitation. That simply won't do.

I agree completely.

Tim
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PanAm Systems

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2013, 10:45:52 AM »

Mr. Mellon,
sorry for spelling your name wrong!
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manjeet aujla

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2013, 07:36:20 PM »

If we ever get to the point, as Mr. King put it a while ago, of having an 'idiot artifact', which convinces the most skeptical, then there will be widespread publicity about AE and her courageous story. A new generation will be inspired by her, who knows to what more, greater achievements. That I believe is the best thing which could come out of the tighar effort - and the best remembrance posterity can give her.  I believe it will happen, and that the strength of her inspiration will be phenomenal, especially to the young folks. And if in that process there is commercial exploitation, but if it serves to spread her story more, I personally don't care if somebody gets rich off of it. 'It is often under the plough of evil that the soil is made fertile again'....paraphrasing Nietzsche.

 I hope tighar gathers enough legal rights so that at least they can limit any crassness ( yeah somebody may again make Fred out to be a drunk). I also think her story is so simply courageous on its own merits that it will not be affected by any exploitation.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2013, 08:37:08 PM »

Earhart herself was no stranger to commercial exploitation. Far otherwise. I certainly hope that when we finally conclusively solve this mystery our success will generate income for the Republic of Kiribati (which owns anything we find) and for TIGHAR so that we can continue and expand our work in aviation historical investigation and preservation.  Commercial exploitation must not, however, turn Nikumaroro into a tourist destination. The Phoenix Islands Protected Area is a UNESCO World Heritage Site and Nikumaroro is one of its most beautiful and best preserved atolls.  We're committed to keeping it that way.
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Christine Schulte

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2013, 12:56:09 PM »

I think a lot of what I mean has been gone over before, in greater depth and in better English than mine , first with the discovery of the Titanic wreckage and then again in 1999 when the body of George Mallory was found high on Everest. Quite a few artifacts were salvaged from the Titanic and some were sold later on with considerable profit (I think a similar scheme may be what Oskar Erich Haberlandt has in mind?). In Mallory's case, the body was photographed, his personal effects were gone over, and DNA and clothing samples were taken. In both instances, some of those things later went on exhibition  tours in all parts of the world, and some reservations were expressed about the way things were handled, both by relatives and by the public. Mallory's relatives especially turned out not to be terribly happy about the photograph of the body being on newspaper and magazine covers the world over; they’ d been asked to consent beforehand and did, but seem to have been overwhelmed by the kind of attention the photograph generated nonetheless. In the case of the Titanic, the dead were “protected” by their being so many, and public attention focused on the ship and the way of life it epitomizes.

However, I think these examples make it very clear that it is problematical to make dead people, and the circumstances under which they died, the object of commercial exploitation. People shouldn't be objects even when they're dead; and the circumstances in which someone dies are something very intimate and generally not fit for public consumption in a manner that often  borders on the voyeuristic. On the other hand, if we stay entirely away from anything like that, it makes scientific insight into what happened impossible. Both the Titanic and the Mallory artefacts were  handled in a responsible manner and the dignity of the dead wasn’t compromised. Still, I think it’s important to be aware of the dangers inherent in something like that.

In Amelia Earhart's and Fred Noonan's case, there are no bodies (and it doesn't look good for the bones being found). There may be parts of the Electra. There are also the artefacts from the Seven Site and Betty's notebook. Pieces of the Electra, preferably with a part number on them, are the only thing that will prove satisfactorily that AE/FN really landed on Nikumaroro; anything else provides circumstantial evidence at best. However, the hypothesis consists of these three factors, and it only really makes sense as a whole. IF the Electra is on Nikumaroro then the Seven Site castaway is almost certainly AE and it doesn't really make sense for Betty to have heard anyone else. The story that emerges then is horrific in the original sense of the word. It might also sell horrifically well.

By asking sponsors to "invest" in the search, TIGHAR would essentially not only relinquish what little control you have over how this story is told, - whether it's a story about what scientific thinking and research can achieve or just another sensational piece about how some celebrity met her end -, you'd be more or less inviting  “investors”, who after all want a return on their investment, to capitalize on the way AE (and FN, although not many seem to care about him)  possibly died. Suffering unfortunately sells very well. (To emphasize it again, I’m perfectly aware that this is in no way about to happen!)

AE certainly knew how to exploit her public persona (which shouldn’t be confused with the real person behind that, which hasn’t really been brought to light – most of what’s been written about her borders on hagiography and critical but sympathetic voices seem to be almost entirely missing).  However, my point is that this is different. She isn’t around to give a “spin” to the way her death is perceived and written about any more and thus, vulnerable to exploitation in a way she certainly wasn’t when she was alive. So is FN.

In short, I don’t think the end (finding the plane) justifies each and every means.
I also think that TIGHAR has handled this very well and is well aware of the dangers and pitfalls.  I’m sure you’ll continue to handle this responsibly. I want to emphasize yet again that what I write about commercial exploitation is entirely hypothetical and doesn’t refer to anything TIGHAR did or is about to do.

It certainly doesn’t do the Republic of Kiribati and the I Kiribati justice to become known as the place where AE possibly wound up and died. But they’re essentially about to become victims of global warming and don’t seem to have much of a choice. I’d be happy if this generates some income for them and makes them better known in the world.
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Rich Purdon

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2013, 04:09:18 PM »

Hello everyone, I must admit to being a longtime reader, first time writer.

Firstly thank you all for your continuing hard work, I feel Amelia always was and for the people and it makes sense to me that the people will find her. I felt compelled to agree with Christine, I think answers are what are required more than artefacts, but that's not to shy away from your continuing good research.

Best wishes,

Rich
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Dave Potratz

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2013, 07:46:52 PM »

Quote
42Extraneous exchanges / Could become Valuable
« on: May 13, 2012, 10:39:13 AM »
I didn't search to see if anyone else posted something like this, but this could become pretty valuable should TIGHAR find the Electra at Niku.

Amelia's Electra

Brad

The model is still available.. I have one in my collection of kits

Brad



I'm delighted to have acquired and constructed the Williams Bros. kit (kudos to you, Brad, for keeping one N.I.B.!)

Here's a few pix of my results, with special thanks to Mr. Harney, who's drawings were instrumental.

Perfectly correct scale model, expertly constructed on my part?   Nah...

My very own small, respectful, slice of history?   Yes.

Dreams?  Oh, maybe about a thousand.... how fantastic is it for just a normal guy to build his own Electra. . .while listening to a Tom King podcast?  Priceless.


Pic #1:  When it came to creating a stand for the "Lost" Craft, the choice was obvious (BIG, BIG props to TIGHAR).

Pic #2:  My favorite part, the Belly Antenna.

Pic #3:  A prominent place in the ole' "man cave," and so it will remain.


Thanks for watching.


LTM, with a passion for History and the deeds of Humankind.
dp
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 08:02:43 PM by Dave Potratz »
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2013, 12:31:49 PM »

Very nice Dave. :D
Woody (former 3316R)
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2013, 09:19:17 PM »

Instead of taking on investors as such, how about using one of the new forms of group fund raising such as kickstarter?  Reaching large groups of people who donate a few dollars each might do it.  TIGHAR is relatively unknown, no disrespect, and the idea is to either hit up a small group for many thousands each or get a large number at a few dollars each.  I'm not sure of the rules for each of these types of groups but I just read of a new group trying to raise funds for charities.  I have seen Ric and TIGHAR be inventive in the past and I'm sure they could figure out how to do this.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2013, 10:41:47 PM »

Instead of taking on investors as such, how about using one of the new forms of group fund raising such as kickstarter? 

We're actively considering a LickStarter campaign.
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2013, 10:51:53 PM »

Ooops! That's what I get for posting via iPhone when I'm jet lagged out of my gourd.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 03:20:27 AM by Ric Gillespie »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2013, 03:23:30 AM »

Ooops! That's what I get for posting via iPhone when I'm jet lagged out of my gourd.

That wasn't Irv. That was me. Sorry. I give up. Gotta get some sleep.
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richie conroy

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2013, 04:11:10 AM »

 :o I don't know ::)
We are an echo of the past


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Irvine John Donald

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2013, 04:29:41 PM »

LOL!  I wondered. I was sure I posted a different message but now I understand!

And yes.  Its Irv this time.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Tim Mellon

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Re: The Road to Niku VIII
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2013, 06:36:26 PM »

"Irvine"/"richie"/Ric/whom-ever:

Careful! You are skating on thin ice there.

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 10:43:06 PM by Tim Mellon »
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