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Author Topic: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream  (Read 446002 times)

richie conroy

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #75 on: August 07, 2012, 01:12:51 PM »

here is why they look similar

I have put arrows to show lines in jar the jar in guy's collection has similar lines



 
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richie conroy

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #76 on: August 07, 2012, 01:17:27 PM »

A link to another link to a milk glass freckle ointment

i know were looking for clear glass, but thought i would post anyway
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« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 06:31:28 PM by Bob Lanz »
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richie conroy

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #77 on: August 07, 2012, 01:51:43 PM »

Has Tighar been in contact with this website ?

http://www.californiaperfumecompany.net/collector/cal_collectors_tips.html

he has loads of vintage stuff
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Thom Boughton

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Re: Freckle Cream Ointment Pot ..."Chemical Analysis"`
« Reply #78 on: August 07, 2012, 03:26:37 PM »

..........There were 7 products we know that were sold in these ointment jars. Dr. C.H. Berry Freckle Ointment is the only one of the seven that we know contained mercury. It is the only one likely to have contained mercury. I'd be interested in any discussion this might generate.



I knew there were a couple, but I wasn't aware we had found six other products.   What are the other six?




tb
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #79 on: August 07, 2012, 10:12:04 PM »

Can anyone tell me if the round lid that is in the lineup of pictures with the shoe parts and the airplane skin back in 1992, possibly belongs to the jar recently found on the island?
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dave burrell

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Re: Freckle Cream Ointment Pot ..."Chemical Analysis"`
« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2012, 02:01:20 PM »

..........There were 7 products we know that were sold in these ointment jars. Dr. C.H. Berry Freckle Ointment is the only one of the seven that we know contained mercury. It is the only one likely to have contained mercury. I'd be interested in any discussion this might generate.



I knew there were a couple, but I wasn't aware we had found six other products.   What are the other six?

tb

Hello, total newbie here and I hate to post a first post that is contradictory but there was more than one product containing mercury that used that jar type found on the island.
There is VELVETIN VANISHING CREAM. In fact their name is embossed in the glass in the botton of the jar I am aware of.
That was a 1930's product that used this exact same jar. It used mercury like every vanishing cream I am aware of.
It matches the found jar exactly except it too is milk glass.
So it appears that like today this ointment, vanishing cream(AKA freckle cream) was put out for different companies to sale in the same jar but with different labels. The hazel Atlas glass company apparently embossed a company name for some of their biggest buyers if requested.
So Dr.Berrys being just one freckle cream. Velvetine being another.
Which one would a lady of means prefer? We don't know.
That doesn't change that a vanishing cream jar was probably found on a deserted island.
What it does mean is that perhaps everyone jumped the gun a bit saying it is a Dr.Berry's jar. Every press report said a Dr.Berrys jar was found.
Perhaps very wrong.
It could have been another company marketing vanishing or lightening cream using this same jar. Some companies would have called it freckle cream. Some companies would have said labeled it spot lightening cream.Likely there were more than the two known companies, Velvetine and Dr Berrys using this jar.
By the late 1930's vanishing cream was fading from popularity, as this link below states.( Not sure if the rules permit links here, but here is a little class on vanishing creams).

http://cosmeticsandskin.com/aba/vanishing-cream.php

So a vanishing cream jar and it's implications was probably found.
To say it was Dr.Berrys is highly speculative since at least one other company( Velvetine) was using this exact same jar.
Perhaps it should be called the Vanishing cream jar, instead of the Dr.Berrys jar.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 02:12:45 PM by dburrell »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Freckle Cream Ointment Pot ..."Chemical Analysis"`
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2012, 02:08:12 PM »

By the late 1930's vanishing cream was fading from popularity, as this link below states.( Not sure if the rules permit links here, but here is a little class on vanishing creams).

Here is a tutorial on how to insert a link into a post.

How to insert an image.

How to modify your posts.
LTM,

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richie conroy

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Re: Freckle Cream Ointment Pot ..."Chemical Analysis"`
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2012, 06:12:53 PM »

..........There were 7 products we know that were sold in these ointment jars. Dr. C.H. Berry Freckle Ointment is the only one of the seven that we know contained mercury. It is the only one likely to have contained mercury. I'd be interested in any discussion this might generate.



I knew there were a couple, but I wasn't aware we had found six other products.   What are the other six?

tb

Hello, total newbie here and I hate to post a first post that is contradictory but there was more than one product containing mercury that used that jar type found on the island.
There is VELVETIN VANISHING CREAM. In fact their name is embossed in the glass in the botton of the jar I am aware of.
That was a 1930's product that used this exact same jar. It used mercury like every vanishing cream I am aware of.
It matches the found jar exactly except it too is milk glass.
So it appears that like today this ointment, vanishing cream(AKA freckle cream) was put out for different companies to sale in the same jar but with different labels. The hazel Atlas glass company apparently embossed a company name for some of their biggest buyers if requested.
So Dr.Berrys being just one freckle cream. Velvetine being another.
Which one would a lady of means prefer? We don't know.
That doesn't change that a vanishing cream jar was probably found on a deserted island.
What it does mean is that perhaps everyone jumped the gun a bit saying it is a Dr.Berry's jar. Every press report said a Dr.Berrys jar was found.
Perhaps very wrong.
It could have been another company marketing vanishing or lightening cream using this same jar. Some companies would have called it freckle cream. Some companies would have said labeled it spot lightening cream.Likely there were more than the two known companies, Velvetine and Dr Berrys using this jar.
By the late 1930's vanishing cream was fading from popularity, as this link below states.( Not sure if the rules permit links here, but here is a little class on vanishing creams).

http://cosmeticsandskin.com/aba/vanishing-cream.php

So a vanishing cream jar and it's implications was probably found.
To say it was Dr.Berrys is highly speculative since at least one other company( Velvetine) was using this exact same jar.
Perhaps it should be called the Vanishing cream jar, instead of the Dr.Berrys jar.

First off welcome to the forum  :)

Tighar have never said IT IS Dr.C.H.Berry Freckle Ointment, What they have said is the only ointment pot they have found of same design is Dr.C.H.Berry Ointment, however up untill this moment we have not found a clear glass dr berry ointment.

You say exactly the same jar except it's milk glass, That's the problem ?, I can show you load's of Ointment Pot's of same design found on Niku BUT they are all milk glass.

A Clear Glass Ointment Pot of same design and pattern as found on Niku is what we seek ? If you can find one hats off to you.

Also Tighar can't control what the press print !!!! If only

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dave burrell

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2012, 07:43:07 PM »

Ok now I am more confused.
Randy said of the 7 ointments known to use this jar, Dr.Berrys is the only known cream using mercury.
I said not correct and gave an example of another brand of lightening cream using this jar containing mercury. And amazingly it's ANOTHER BRAND of freckle cream.

Then Richie said Tighars stance was quote "What they have said is the only ointment pot they have found of same design is Dr.C.H.Berry Ointment, however up untill this moment we have not found a clear glass dr berry ointment."

But that totally contradicts the fact that apparently there were 7 other ointment pots of the same design. Not just Dr Berry.

So I am really confused about what Tighars stance is.
They know of  7 different ointments that used this same design but release a press release saying Dr. Berrys is the only one that matched the found artifacts design? Or is Tighar saying they know of 7 different ointments but Dr.Berrys is the only one containing MERCURY which was found on the artifact?(which is also incorrect)
In either example, regardless of clear or milk glass, that press release is incorrect.
I consider it fairly irrelevant whether a clear Dr.Berrys glass is available. We know they used clear at some point correct? Pre 1936.
I guess what I am getting at is what is Tighars stance at this point on this artifact given that there were at least 7 different ointments known to use this design. Including ANOTHER lighening cream using mercury.
If all 7 ointments using this jar contained various forms of freckle(lightening cream), it is solid evidence that this jar is extremely relevant.
There would be no reason for this 1930's jar design to be on that island other than AE.
If however 4 of the ointments contained lip balm or chapstick, the case for this being connected to AE becomes very much strained.
So the big question for me, is not milk glass versus clear glass.
It is what ointments were known to use this design?
So far on this forum, I have heard of two.
Dr.Berrys and Velvatine. Both skin lighteners.
What are the others? Who came up with the number 7 ointments used this design?
And what are those ointments?
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John Kada

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2012, 08:47:16 PM »


There would be no reason for this 1930's jar design to be on that island other than AE.


The jar could have been left by a coast guardsman. See Mark Pearce's Reply #63 on the Evaluating the Niku Hypothesis thread (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,748.msg17299.html#msg17299). Also have a look at Diego Vasquez's post, Reply #8, on the Research Bulletin #62: Lotion Bottle thread (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,599.msg17887.html#msg17887).

« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 09:11:58 PM by John Kada »
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richie conroy

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2012, 09:04:35 PM »

Ok now I am more confused.
Randy said of the 7 ointments known to use this jar, Dr.Berrys is the only known cream using mercury.
I said not correct and gave an example of another brand of lightening cream using this jar containing mercury. And amazingly it's ANOTHER BRAND of freckle cream.

Then Richie said Tighars stance was quote "What they have said is the only ointment pot they have found of same design is Dr.C.H.Berry Ointment, however up untill this moment we have not found a clear glass dr berry ointment."

But that totally contradicts the fact that apparently there were 7 other ointment pots of the same design. Not just Dr Berry.

So I am really confused about what Tighars stance is.
They know of  7 different ointments that used this same design but release a press release saying Dr. Berrys is the only one that matched the found artifacts design? Or is Tighar saying they know of 7 different ointments but Dr.Berrys is the only one containing MERCURY which was found on the artifact?(which is also incorrect)
In either example, regardless of clear or milk glass, that press release is incorrect.
I consider it fairly irrelevant whether a clear Dr.Berrys glass is available. We know they used clear at some point correct? Pre 1936.
I guess what I am getting at is what is Tighars stance at this point on this artifact given that there were at least 7 different ointments known to use this design. Including ANOTHER lighening cream using mercury.
If all 7 ointments using this jar contained various forms of freckle(lightening cream), it is solid evidence that this jar is extremely relevant.
There would be no reason for this 1930's jar design to be on that island other than AE.
If however 4 of the ointments contained lip balm or chapstick, the case for this being connected to AE becomes very much strained.
So the big question for me, is not milk glass versus clear glass.
It is what ointments were known to use this design?
So far on this forum, I have heard of two.
Dr.Berrys and Velvatine. Both skin lighteners.
What are the others? Who came up with the number 7 ointments used this design?
And what are those ointments?

Randy said of the 7 ointment's that used this jar, We I mean I, are still waiting to know what the other 6 products are, You gave an example of another brand but it's not the same jar, Dont worry i made same error aldo they are similar their not exactly the same,

Tighar have said the ointment pot found on Niku, After much research matches hazel atlas serial number 1995, However as yet have not been able to find a Dr Berrys clear glass freckle cream or Another product, That uses same jar that is clear glass.

I have asked the question whether the clear glass jar could be Dr Berry's, But was specially made for Amelia as a gift.

Untill an exact match is found we won't know for certain :)   
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dave burrell

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2012, 09:27:50 PM »

John, of course it could have been left by the coast guard. Not exactly my point however.
At the start of this thread, Ric, stated an opinion. You can re-read it, it was 2010. It states in summary we found this jar, and the ONLY advertising we can find for a similar bottle is Dr.Berrys freckle cream.
In it he make a plea for help in finding this bottle.
Now while Richie says Tighar cannot contol the press, this is exactly what happened.
There was a press release.
It hit every paper and internet site from Reuters to the LA Times.
The lead story was expedition finds bottle that only matches Dr.Berrys Freckle cream. Then the stories would explain why that was relevant.

Now there seems to be a backing off of this artifacts importance. Well not seems, there IS. In this thread alone, we have it that Tighar never stated it was Dr.Berrys freckle cream,(strongly implied it though worldwide), and news to me there have been 7 different ointments that have used this jar.
That never exactly made a press release.
The implications are obvious.

Since 2010 somebody found that 7 other companies making a variety of ointments used this jar. Who found that information and where are the results?
And then quietly the freckle jar artifact loses it's importance.
And lets make no mistake, this was front page news.
Not the Other green bottle found, not any other artifact, this Dr.Berrys freckle cream jar was all over
the place. Do a quick google search and you will find out it was a press release all over the world.
Now we have a "well it might have been a freckle jar", "we didn't say it was Dr.Berrys". I haven't seen any press releases saying subsequent research has us backing off our theory.
Don't want to be a negative nanny, but it's odd this thing explodes all over the world and internet with the headline -"could this clue solve the mystery..."
to now just another "maybe"

And no doubt it has to do with what those 7 other ointments that used this bottle were.
If subsequent research by the cream jar guy found conflicting or contradictory evidence towards this jar, then I think it relevant it be posted somewhere.
I searched this forum, and could not find that subsequent research and what it revealed.
It is important I believe. Probably the strongest evidence Tighar has found really and the reason it went worldwide with it. If all ointments that used this jar were lightening cream, the weight of evidence strongly tips to no coast guardsman using a pretty decorative bottle of spot cream remover.
If however chapstick was in this jar by bobs sunburn company, I can understand why this artifact has lost it's importance.
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dave burrell

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2012, 10:03:05 PM »

Richie, I don't get the importance of clear versus milk.
It's the same jar.
The company records show it used both, so I think it's important to not
lose the forest for the trees.
A new form of milk glass Hazel Atlas made, patented in 36, and sat out on
an island for 80 years might not be opaque anymore.
Regardless, Dr Berrys used both.
So the one found COULD BE an earlier example.
The one I found should not be confused with a generic milk jar resembling the one found.
Mine says VELETINE LIGHTENING CREAM in the glass.
Coincidence?
Two known examples, though of a different color, of this exact height, size, and style of jar are found. And BOTH are freckle cream. For a fact.
Not conjecture, Tighar has one with a lable saying freckle cream, I have one that is embossed in the glass saying freckle cream.
I would say this jar held freckle cream.

Unless someone found examples of this jar holding lip balm, or toothpaste.
Then it's evidential weight becomes compromised as perhaps coincidence.
If however, all 7 companies were lightening cream, and we have two bottles marked lighteing cream, I think it matters not the glass color since hazel glass records say they used both types of color.
In other words, I think the color thing is seeing the trees instead of the forest.
The importance is what these other ointments using this STYLE jar used.
Not the color. Not in my opinion.
So where is this research. Show the research on what these jars held.
If there are only two known examples, albeit white, and both say freckle cream from two seperate companies, I would say it's a darn sure bet that is a bottle of freckle cream.
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2012, 06:52:03 AM »

Good Morning Guys! Hey, I just got caught up on reading some of the posts and I have to be honest with you on this...I overlooked Joe's last email to me on what the 6 other jars were. Like you, I too was baffled by his email. So anyway, my apology and here is what he wrote:

Randy..A forum member, Thom Boughton, asks "What are the 6 other products that were sold in the ointment pot? they are: Burnham Kalos Skin Rejuvenator, Gervaise Graham Hygienic Skin Cream,Gervaise Graham Skin Food, Woodbury Violet Face Cream, Dr. Berry's Creme Elite, and Dr. Berry's Massage Cream. We've seen actual examples of only the Burnham and the Woodbury products. The other 4 products have only been spotted from advertisements, mainly in the Sears Roebuck Catalogs from the Twentieth Century. The 2 Gervaise products may represent a single product that changed its name. All of these others are unlikely to have contained mercury. We would be very interested in any examples anyone can find on ebay or elsewhere!!! Thanks!!! Joe Cerniglia
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 06:56:36 AM by Randy Conrad »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2012, 07:27:21 AM »

Richie, I don't get the importance of clear versus milk.
It's the same jar.

It's a strange discrepancy.

It poses a question that might be answered by further research.

Quote
A new form of milk glass Hazel Atlas made, patented in 36, and sat out on
an island for 80 years might not be opaque anymore.

People who collect antique glass say that's not what happens with opaque glass exposed to sunlight.

Quote
Mine says VELETINE LIGHTENING CREAM in the glass.

... 
Two known examples, though of a different color, of this exact height, size, and style of jar are found. And BOTH are freckle cream. For a fact.

May we have some pictures of your jar, along with a scale in the picture? 
LTM,

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