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Author Topic: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?  (Read 87772 times)

Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2012, 11:38:39 PM »


I can think of several reasons stuff from AE has not been found on the island.
1.       AE was not there
2.       AE was there but did not bring the stuff with her on the plane
3.       AE left the stuff on the plane which was washed off reef or stuff was lost in the attempt to bring it ashore (See descriptions of the difficulty in getting stuff ashore)
4.       AE brought the stuff ashore and it is not found yet, and was possibly at a different camp, maybe even the N.C.
5.       AE brought stuff ashore that was later scavenged and thought to be from the N.C
6.       AE brought stuff ashore that weathered away or was blown or washed off the island, like canteens and raft seen in this video
7.       AE brought stuff ashore that was recovered by TIGHAR but has not been proven yet to belong to AE.
Norwich City castaways made a shelter with old canvas but the picture of the camp does not show the canvas. Maybe it blew away like the raft, if the raft even made it there.
Also, Maybe the yellow raft and or kite was seen and thought to be markers or shelter that were considered signs of recent habitation.
Also, neither the life raft nor the parachutes were spotted by the Lambrecht flight only one week after the loss, a very short period for these things to disappear.

gl
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2012, 11:47:16 PM »



Writing graffiti such as "AE was here" is usually done by someone leaving a place.
Pure speculation on your part.

gl
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2012, 11:50:38 PM »


Also, neither the life raft nor the parachutes were spotted by the Lambrecht flight only one week after the loss, a very short period for these things to disappear.

gl
[/quote]

Those are two things that can act like a sail and may not take long at all to be blown away if a storm or squall hit
3971R
 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 12:09:35 AM by Gregory Lee Daspit »
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2012, 12:36:14 AM »



Writing graffiti such as "AE was here" is usually done by someone leaving a place.
Pure speculation on your part.

gl

Maybe.
I was taking it in the context as graffiti which is the part of my quote you did not make bold when you quoted me. In the same graffiti context as "kilroy was here" which you originated
I think someone who writes graffiti that says "was here" means they plan to leave. I think if they write "Is Here" they plan to stay. Thats my understanding of the phrase "was here".
3971R
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2012, 10:02:23 AM »

   Might it be advantageous to pause for a short while, determine where we are at now and where we want to be at in the near future?  In the past, decisions of where we were going, when we were going, and who was going have always been made somewhere “On High” and the Word pasted on down to us members requesting cheers and donations. Could the members be more involved in choosing the next major course of actions with help from Tighar mgn’t? I would start a thread like; What’s Next ? and invite all members to openly contribute their ideas and suggestions, however I don’t have the credibility to foster such a major thread. Ric does, but Ric is probably much too busy with other things. Possibly an Andrew or a Jeff type?

It may help if I explain how TIGHAR is organized under the bylaws submitted and approved when TIGHAR was granted tax exempt status in 1985.
• TIGHAR is a "board driven" organization.  An Executive Committee appointed by a Board of Directors manages the organization's affairs.  The Executive Committee is made up of two officers - the Executive Director (me) and the President (my wife Pat Thrasher). 
• The Executive Committee runs the day-to-day operation of the organization.  The Board of Directors oversees the activities of the Executive Committee and determines the general direction of the organization by voting on resolutions put forward by members of the board.
• The Executive Committee and the Board of Directors welcome suggestions from the Earhart Project Advisory Council, the TIGHAR membership, and the general public through avenues such as this forum.

Decisions about "What's Next" will be a major topic of discussion at the next Board of Directors meeting scheduled for early next month.
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2012, 10:04:16 AM »

Quote from: Ric Gillespie link=topic=261.msg20049.html#msg20049
   

I can't believe what I'm reading. What items "can be proven to have been on the airplane?"
How could Putnam possibly know what was aboard the airplane when it left Lae?  He may have known what was aboard when AE left Miami a month earlier and we can speculate that she may have informed him of changes to the load in phone calls made during the trip, but the ONLY information ANYONE has about what was aboard for the Lae/Howland leg is AE's comment in her July 1st travelogue installment to the Herald Trib, "Fred and I have worked very hard in the last two days repacking the plane and eliminating everything unessential. We have discarded as much personal property as we can decently get along without and henceforth propose to travel lighter than ever before."  Are you now going to tell us what items Amelia would consider essential?


Ric, you say “…the ONLY information ANYONE has about what was aboard for the Lae/Howland leg is AE's comment in her July 1st travelogue…”
 
You then quote from part of the travelogue/telegram, but you’ve left out the important and rather intriguing line where Amelia adds-

“I RETAIN ONLY ONE BRIEF CASE IN WHICH ARE PAPERS AS WELL AS CLOTHING AND TOOTH BRUSH”

Here is the part of the telegram we are concerned with- [verbatim-- original can be read at the Purdue archives.  See page 7.]
   
“FRED AND I HAVE WORKED VERY HARD LAST TWO DAYS REPACKING PLANE AND ELIMINATING EVERYTHING UNESSENTIAL HAVE WEIGHT WE HAVE EVEN LEFT OUT AS MUCH PERSONAL PROPERTY AS WE CAN DECENTLY AND HENCEFORTH PURPOSE TO TRAVEL LIGHTER THAN EVER I RETAIN ONLY ONE BRIEF CASE IN WHICH ARE PAPERS AS WELL AS CLOTHING AND TOOTH BRUSH HE HAS SMALL TIN CASE WHICH PICKED UP IN AFRICA I NOTICE IT STILL RATTLES SO CAN NOT BE STUFFED…
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Bob Lanz

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2012, 11:12:10 AM »

Quote from: Ric Gillespie link=topic=261.msg20049.html#msg20049
   

I can't believe what I'm reading. What items "can be proven to have been on the airplane?"
How could Putnam possibly know what was aboard the airplane when it left Lae?  He may have known what was aboard when AE left Miami a month earlier and we can speculate that she may have informed him of changes to the load in phone calls made during the trip, but the ONLY information ANYONE has about what was aboard for the Lae/Howland leg is AE's comment in her July 1st travelogue installment to the Herald Trib, "Fred and I have worked very hard in the last two days repacking the plane and eliminating everything unessential. We have discarded as much personal property as we can decently get along without and henceforth propose to travel lighter than ever before."  Are you now going to tell us what items Amelia would consider essential?


Ric, you say “…the ONLY information ANYONE has about what was aboard for the Lae/Howland leg is AE's comment in her July 1st travelogue…”
 
You then quote from part of the travelogue/telegram, but you’ve left out the important and rather intriguing line where Amelia adds-

“I RETAIN ONLY ONE BRIEF CASE IN WHICH ARE PAPERS AS WELL AS CLOTHING AND TOOTH BRUSH”

Here is the part of the telegram we are concerned with- [verbatim-- original can be read at the Purdue archives.  See page 7.]
   
“FRED AND I HAVE WORKED VERY HARD LAST TWO DAYS REPACKING PLANE AND ELIMINATING EVERYTHING UNESSENTIAL HAVE WEIGHT WE HAVE EVEN LEFT OUT AS MUCH PERSONAL PROPERTY AS WE CAN DECENTLY AND HENCEFORTH PURPOSE TO TRAVEL LIGHTER THAN EVER I RETAIN ONLY ONE BRIEF CASE IN WHICH ARE PAPERS AS WELL AS CLOTHING AND TOOTH BRUSH HE HAS SMALL TIN CASE WHICH PICKED UP IN AFRICA I NOTICE IT STILL RATTLES SO CAN NOT BE STUFFED…

Mark, in the 35 years I was married, I don't recall my wife ever leaving for anywhere without her purse.  That is not to say she didn't, but not when we were travelling.  Amelia being a woman of 40 years, would IMO, have carried with her, her personal feminine items and not just a toothbrush.  The fact that she didn't include those in her telegram to her husband doesn't seem unusual to me.  And as Ric so aptly said "How could Putnam possibly know what was aboard the airplane when it left Lae?"  Amelia said, "Eliminating  everything unessential".  That said, I doubt that she eliminated the aforementioned personal items as being unessential.  On the contrary, they were essential and would have been with her and quite possibly a small 2 oz. Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream Jar.
Doc
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Bill Roe

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2012, 11:56:31 AM »

Mark, in the 35 years I was married, I don't recall my wife ever leaving for anywhere without her purse.  That is not to say she didn't, but not when we were travelling.  Amelia being a woman of 40 years, would IMO, have carried with her, her personal feminine items and not just a toothbrush.  The fact that she didn't include those in her telegram to her husband doesn't seem unusual to me.  And as Ric so aptly said "How could Putnam possibly know what was aboard the airplane when it left Lae?"  Amelia said, "Eliminating  everything unessential".  That said, I doubt that she eliminated the aforementioned personal items as being unessential.  On the contrary, they were essential and would have been with her and quite possibly a small 2 oz. Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream Jar.

Yeah Bob but is your wife a pilot planning an around the world flight in an airplane that has very limited capabilities.  Or - does she at least think like a pilot in that circumstance?

If so, would your wife have eliminated the life raft?  And, as her husband being intimately familiar with your wife and her planning, would you have clearly stated to the world that she had a life raft on board if there were none there?

And BTW - I've been married to the same wonderful lady for 48 years and she does not take her purse everywhere with me.  Especially on our boat for a day cruise.
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2012, 12:22:04 PM »

Bob, as others often say around here, “you are entitled to your own opinions…”, but in this particular case, it’s Amelia Earhart herself who is reporting, “I retain only one brief case… papers… clothing and tooth brush.”  She says nothing about freckle cream, hand lotion, or even toothpaste for that matter.  The jar - with cap and contents - would weigh more than 2oz. 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2012, 12:24:25 PM »

Quote
And BTW - I've been married to the same wonderful lady for 48 years and she does not take her purse everywhere with me.  Especially on our boat for a day cruise.

Mine never carries a purse when out with me  ???
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dave burrell

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2012, 12:37:11 PM »

Gary seems correct. The life raft was thought to be aboard by Putnam. It was thought to be aboard by the navy, we have newsreels showing Amelia with the Life raft.
On the other hand we have speculation it was left behind when packing "non essential" supplies.
The weight of the evidence is she had a life raft. I will accept Her Husband's word.
Why it wasn't seen on Niku a week after the landing is a hurdle for the landing on Niku theory. It is incredulous to me the plane vanishing by a storm within a week. First you need a storm, then you need Fred and Amelia just watching it slip away without wrecking into the reef trough or beach at full power. It is also hard to believe they did not pull off necessary supplies like a life raft.
Then to take it one further leap, we have to say the rescuers missed a yellow life raft, or saw it and just said to themselves, "a life raft, nah means nothing, lets get out of here, onto to the next island", while by major coincidence Amelia was off hiking concealed in the brush at the same time.
Wow, the castaways were having some bad luck that week.

Mark is also correct, there is a long list of items that should have been aboard the electra that have not been found. Items the occupants had plenty of time to remove.Suitcase, water bottles, fuel cans(lots of them),clothing identified by photographs such as leather jacket fragments, Freds clothing, hair, Her teeth, Freds teeth, instruments for navigation, Papers and charts, emergency supplies like first aid kits, the life raft, flare gun, flares, toolbox, and probably a lot more I haven't thought of. Still a bare bones flight, but still a lot that should have been on that island at some point.

So none of that was found. But an outdated jar of ointment was found and assigned evidence value as a personal item of freckle cream. Now we have a report from Amelia listing in the smallest detail what she carried as far as personal items, down to her toothbrush, and guess what? No freckle cream mentioned.
Still some insist a WWI cream jar was a personal artifact of AE?

John Desling summed it up nicely, two decades later, no plane, no wings, no engines, no identifiable supplies, or personal items like clothing, or teeth and bones.
Just a cream jar which would have held some very old cream by 1937 if it was Earharts. And even that scant evidence is not supported by Amelias own testimony she carried no personal items like cosmetics. Only a toothbrush for hygiene.

It seems to me, that if Amelia was there, man or nature has swept clean any items that could be reasonably associated to Earhart. Or she was never there. I remember a 2001 Dr.King interview where he was asked at what point searching should end. He laughed and said basically when the money runs out, then got serious and said yes at some point the land has yielded all it will basically and it is past the point of diminishing returns.
I would suggest Tighar is at that point if all that has been found is what has been presented. Unless a storm uncovers new beachfront evidence, like a wing, then perhaps all resources spent should be underwater.
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Bill Roe

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2012, 12:41:20 PM »

Quote
And BTW - I've been married to the same wonderful lady for 48 years and she does not take her purse everywhere with me.  Especially on our boat for a day cruise.

Mine never carries a purse when out with me  ???

LMAO - I guess all wives are alike.  Except with different faces so we can tell them apart.  :)
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2012, 12:50:16 PM »

Dave B said

Quote
First you need a storm,

No one is saying a storm took the Electra off the reef, it was the rising tides and wave action, not a storm.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2012, 12:54:18 PM »

Quote
clothing, or teeth and bones.

Clothing perishes but leaves zipper and buttons.

Teeth and Bones, Gallaghers find?
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Bill Roe

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Re: Did Earhart Leave Her Life Raft Behind?
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2012, 01:03:34 PM »

Gary seems correct. The life raft was thought to be aboard by Putnam. It was thought to be aboard by the navy, we have newsreels showing Amelia with the Life raft.

No.  Per her husband the life raft was on board the airplane......http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/47954191?searchTerm=mrsputnam%27sliferafthawaii&searchLimits=  (see also Gary's links)

Further to the speculation of others, that life raft provides a 1.) mattress/bed on hard ground or 2.) part of a shelter or 3.) (there is no 3) or 4.) a water container or whatever
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