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Author Topic: The Bevington Object  (Read 256222 times)

Alan Harris

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2012, 03:37:21 PM »

Alternative thought is that the Bevington object wasnt there. Either was the Electra. Whatever happened in the time between the landing and the overflight, the plane and our object disappeared.

With respect, I think Bevington's photo was taken 3 months after the Lambrecht overflight.
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Bill Roe

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2012, 04:57:22 PM »

Alternative thought is that the Bevington object wasnt there. Either was the Electra. Whatever happened in the time between the landing and the overflight, the plane and our object disappeared.

With respect, I think Bevington's photo was taken 3 months after the Lambrecht overflight.

Right - but the object was supposedly there when Bevington was there.  Ergo the object and/or the Electra had to be there when Lambrecht flew over.
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Bill Roe

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2012, 04:58:46 PM »

Here is the Lambrecht picture.

The surf's on the wrong side of the island.  Not the object side - in this pic.
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2012, 05:22:14 PM »

When the high tide is in, it is in all the way around the island, not just on one side. :P
Woody (former 3316R)
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Bill Roe

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2012, 05:36:41 PM »

When the high tide is in, it is in all the way around the island, not just on one side. :P

My key word was - "surf", Woody.

Glad to see you're back posting.
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2012, 08:07:12 PM »

yep true about the pic being taken 3 months later. Doesnt meant that on July 9 is was in the same spot as the picture. The Electra wasnt. Yes it IS far fetched and way out of the box to think that the 'object' "might" have moved from some submerged area of the reef to the area and attitude that we see in the picture. Ever see things get moved by a really active surf> Take a look at the New Jersey shoreline for an extreme example.
My point is, for whatever reason, Lambrechts flight didnt see it. Whether it was there at that time, no one knows for sure. We know the Electra wasnt. And we know the 'object' isnt there now. So the forces that possibly made her invisible to the overflight, then allowed her to settle for Bevington to take his picture, and them gone again to ---wherever it went to.
The Maid of Harlech seems to be covered, then uncovered for a time, then covered again.
So---tell me where the Bevington Object is.
Tom
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2012, 08:08:23 PM »

My key word was - "surf",

I've never seen a day at Niku when the surf was high on one side of the island and calm on another.
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Bill Roe

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2012, 09:42:04 PM »

My key word was - "surf",

I've never seen a day at Niku when the surf was high on one side of the island and calm on another.

http://gmap3d.com/?c=kr&UF=-1352506&UN=-1947231&DG=RF

You have to zoom out to see the island then move it to the center then zoom back in. 

East side - very, very rough.  West side - not nearly so much.  Waves breaking at the edge of the reef - no white water on the reef.

Use the controls on upper right.

Re Woody's pic - it's very difficult to see but it seems to be very similar in that there is no large surf on the west or northwest side of the island either.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 09:54:26 PM by Bill Roe »
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Gary LaPook

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #83 on: November 02, 2012, 12:54:33 AM »

My key word was - "surf",

I've never seen a day at Niku when the surf was high on one side of the island and calm on another.

http://gmap3d.com/?c=kr&UF=-1352506&UN=-1947231&DG=RF

You have to zoom out to see the island then move it to the center then zoom back in. 

East side - very, very rough.  West side - not nearly so much.  Waves breaking at the edge of the reef - no white water on the reef.

Use the controls on upper right.

Re Woody's pic - it's very difficult to see but it seems to be very similar in that there is no large surf on the west or northwest side of the island either.
And according to the Colorado log (the ship was the closest reporting station to Gardner, only about 30 NM away at the time) the swells were low and from the south east so the east reef and the four mile long island created a lee and a complete breakwater, sheltering the west reef from any waves. The wind was also out of the east at only 12 knots, a light breeze, so there is no reason to expect any breaking waves in the area of the west reef at the time of the flyover. The planes launched at 0700 Colorado time, which was 0730 Gardner time (1830 Z), and had to fly 110 NM, overflying McKean on the way to Gardner at 90 knots taking at least  1 hour and 13 minutes plus the time spent over McKean (say, 15 minutes) so the planes arrived over Gardner at about 0830 Colorado time, 0900 Gardner time (2000 Z). They flew over that island between 15 and 30 minutes so didn't depart until about 0900 Colorado time, 0930 Gardner time (2030 Z).

gl
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 01:26:58 AM by Gary LaPook »
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Gary LaPook

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #84 on: November 02, 2012, 02:30:56 AM »

My key word was - "surf",

I've never seen a day at Niku when the surf was high on one side of the island and calm on another.

http://gmap3d.com/?c=kr&UF=-1352506&UN=-1947231&DG=RF

You have to zoom out to see the island then move it to the center then zoom back in. 

East side - very, very rough.  West side - not nearly so much.  Waves breaking at the edge of the reef - no white water on the reef.

Use the controls on upper right.

Re Woody's pic - it's very difficult to see but it seems to be very similar in that there is no large surf on the west or northwest side of the island either.
That's the same picture as on Google Earth taken in 2007. It show heavy surf on the east coast reef and very little on the south and west as expected with the prevailing winds out of the east.

gl
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John Joseph Barrett

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #85 on: November 02, 2012, 05:31:43 AM »

What are the bouyancy characteristics of a Goodyear Airwheel tire that is inflated on a rim? I know that weight is critical on aircraft components and wonder if the wheel would float with the gear leg and maybe other bits attached. If the Electra was there, and was washed off the reef edge and hung in the shallows, it would explain why it wasn't visible in the flyover, yet was accessible enough that the colonists could see it either sticking up at low tide or from their boats. The gear is then torn away as the surf beats on the wreck and floats above the reef, heavy bits down until it snags and remains hung at least long enough for the Bevington photo. Anyone have a similar gear leg assembly we can toss in a pool to see if and how it might float?   LTM- John
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Bill Roe

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #86 on: November 02, 2012, 05:38:54 AM »

What are the bouyancy characteristics of a Goodyear Airwheel tire that is inflated on a rim? I know that weight is critical on aircraft components and wonder if the wheel would float ......

I'm thinking that the forces ripping structural metal and fasteners apart would probably rip the (rubber) tire to shreds first?  And, as in the Bahama video I posted, part of the supporting structure should have come with the U/C?
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Chris Johnson

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #87 on: November 02, 2012, 07:06:18 AM »

What are the bouyancy characteristics of a Goodyear Airwheel tire that is inflated on a rim? I know that weight is critical on aircraft components and wonder if the wheel would float ......

I'm thinking that the forces ripping structural metal and fasteners apart would probably rip the (rubber) tire to shreds first?  And, as in the Bahama video I posted, part of the supporting structure should have come with the U/C?

18 months after she disappeared, wreckage from the Lady Southern Cross was found with tyre still inflated.

OK maybe not the same environment as Niku, I don't know but at least an example of a landing gear with inflated wheel intact.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #88 on: November 02, 2012, 10:11:26 AM »

What are the bouyancy characteristics of a Goodyear Airwheel tire that is inflated on a rim?
We've run the numbers. The tire displacement volume is 6.315 cubic feet. At 64 pounds per cubic foot of sea water, the tire displaces 404.2 lbs. Subtract 54.5 lbs for
the tire weight, and the reserve buoyancy is 349.6 lbs. Subtract another 34 lbs for the wheel, and the remaining reserve buoyancy is 349.6 lbs.  It seems unlikely that the strut and worm gear would weigh more than 350 lbs so it would seem safe to assume that the assembly would float - assuming that the tire remained inflated.  However, if the assembly as seen in the Bevington photo were floating we would not be seeing the strut and the worm gear above water, so it's not floating.  If it's not floating and it's still there three months after the event, it seems like it must be jammed in the reef.

And BTW, there was more than enough water on the reef edge when the Colorado planes were overhead to completely cover the Bevington Object with or without surf.  We calculate the water level at that spot when Lambrecht and company flew over as a little over 2 feet.  The Bevington Photo was taken at low tide and the object was sticking up about 20 inches.
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Bob Lanz

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Re: The Bevington Object
« Reply #89 on: November 02, 2012, 10:26:23 AM »

What are the bouyancy characteristics of a Goodyear Airwheel tire that is inflated on a rim?
We've run the numbers. The tire displacement volume is 6.315 cubic feet. At 64 pounds per cubic foot of sea water, the tire displaces 404.2 lbs. Subtract 54.5 lbs for
the tire weight, and the reserve buoyancy is 349.6 lbs. Subtract another 34 lbs for the wheel, and the remaining reserve buoyancy is 349.6 lbs.  It seems unlikely that the strut and worm gear would weigh more than 350 lbs so it would seem safe to assume that the assembly would float - assuming that the tire remained inflated.  However, if the assembly as seen in the Bevington photo were floating we would not be seeing the strut and the worm gear above water, so it's not floating.  If it's not floating and it's still there three months after the event, it seems like it must be jammed in the reef.

And BTW, there was more than enough water on the reef edge when the Colorado planes were overhead to completely cover the Bevington Object with or without surf.  We calculate the water level at that spot when Lambrecht and company flew over as a little over 2 feet.  The Bevington Photo was taken at low tide and the object was sticking up about 20 inches.

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However, if the assembly as seen in the Bevington photo were floating we would not be seeing the strut and the worm gear above water, so it's not floating


Exactly Ric, and where Mr. Glickman placed the worm gear in the symposium presentation was a gross error on his part to say nothing of the poor quality of the placement of the components without the proper direction.  Bad form in my humble opinion.
Doc
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