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[john a delsing]

Tom,
   Yes I was in dc and yes I visited with Jeff at length and as usual you are right on,,,I did walk away impressed, I still am.................. But I met a lot of tighar mgn't; Andrew, ric, Martin, dr. King, and others and the same could be said for all, very good group.

[Tom Swearengen]

I think I met you to John. I was impressed with the entire group, which has given me the brite idea to let them so their work and not try to influence anyone with  my humble thoughts. They are much smarter about things like this than I am. I got in trouble a couple of years ago by saying that Nessie (Bevington Object) looked like a landing gear strut to me. See what a mess I helped get us into? . Seriously, Jeff is going to find what we are looking for in his due time. He has to get it right, so he is making a list and checking it twice. In the end, his professionalism will win out, and we will all be proud to know him.
Tom

[Brad Beeching]

I'm sure this has or has already been done, but has anyone done a comparison of the shapes in the debris field with the photos taken at the Gillam Crashsite? When I look at the film of the debris field, all I see are odd shapes all over and nothing I can identify as being anything. I'm afraid I'm not much help in that regard, I guess I just find it too humorous that some folks can see control knobs, instruments, and all manner of airplane parts where the profesionals see coral. Pretty soon somebody is going to claim they saw Amelia waving at 'em using a cellphone!

Brad

[Bob Lanz]

It is amazing how your minds eye can cheat itself into believing something is there that may not be.  I found this picture in a link on the Arno Atoll.  Does anyone see a face or skull in the circle?

[jgf1944]

It is amazing how your minds eye can cheat itself into believing something is there that may not be.  I found this picture in a link on the Arno Atoll.  Does anyone see a face or skull in the circle?

  why stop there? how about the two legs, left arm, and withered right arm!
  optical illusions show just how instrumental the mind is relative to what we deem to be reality. Check out the link and watch the female go from young to old (and vice versa) before your very eyes.


Edited to place the long link in the text.

[Bob Lanz]

It is amazing how your minds eye can cheat itself into believing something is there that may not be.  I found this picture in a link on the Arno Atoll.  Does anyone see a face or skull in the circle?

Holy cow, Bob - that's FN's skull!  I can tell by the dent in the cranium... 

LTM -

Oh yea Jeff, well how did it get to the Arno Atoll?  Did it float there from Gardner?  That opens up a whole new hypothesis doncha know?

[Brad Beeching]

Fred was a seaman, naturally he dragged the missing lifeboat down the beach and across the reef to launch it through the surf. Thats how he ended up on Arno Atoll 

[Bob Lanz]

Fred must have drifted there, just like this thread has.

[Gloria Walker Burger]

Ric wrote on post #267:

In 1996 we went to that spot and found the water collection device.

Ric,
Where can I find a picture of that device?

Gloria

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

Where can I find a picture of that device?

If you look way up at the top of this page, you will see a "Search TIGHAR" tab.

Click on that.

Put "water collection device" into the special google box on the search page.

You will then be able to browse through 58 results to learn all about the water collection device.

[dave burrell]

Some good points raised by Malcolm and John. The exact location of the second debris field, the one in the HD video, is naturally not being disclosed. However on reading Rics report it gives you some idea of the terrain...

Multi-beam sonar maps of the underwater topography off the west end of Nikumaroro made during the Niku VII expedition show it to be a series of near-vertical cliffs interspersed in places with occasional shelves or moderations in the reef slope. Level sea floor is not reached until 40 kilometers (24 miles) offshore at a depth of 6,000 meters (nearly 20,000 feet). To make matters worse, we found large sections of the reef slope to be unstable and subject to frequent underwater landslides that could easily bury pieces of aircraft wreckage.
The ROV used during the Niku VII expedition had a maximum depth of about 850 meters (2,800 feet) so, in effect, we were looking for debris from the aircraft that came to rest on a shelf or moderate slope between cliffs and did not get covered by coral landslides that, naturally, tend to accumulate on shelves and moderate slopes. The debris field identified by Jeff Glickman is on a moderate slope near the base of a cliff amid apparent coral debris from landslides. For obvious security reasons, we’re not releasing the exact location and depth of the debris field.

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/63_DebrisField/63_DebrisField.htm   

Jeff what are the security concerns about releasing a detailed map of the debris field and/or the exact location?  There are no gold or valuables. The location and depth will keep it well protected from recreational divers. I doubt anybody is mounting a 2 million dollar competing expedition to Niku based on Coral that might have something inside.
So what is the harm in a detailed map at this point? (Unless Tighar has got the whole dang plane in perfect shape down there in 800 feet of water just waiting to be raised and aren't telling!...hmmmm. )

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

Dave, the Phoenix islands Are in a marine protected area PIPA, Phoenix Islands Protected Area.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/victory-at-sea.html?device=ipad

 As a protected marine conservation area it would not be wise to give the exact location of the debris field to every would be salvage operator to ilegally start trawling around the coral reefs. It has been done before by one such entrepreneur who managed to drag up a chunk of the SS Norwich City.

http://tighar.org/Publications/TTracks/2001Vol_17/words.pdf

So the 'security' aspect is for the protection of the marine convservation area Dave rather than any 'treasure' or 'scoop' that the debris field may yield. Besides, permission is of course needed from the Republic of Kiribati before anyone goes 'invading' their national boundaries in search of whatever.
IMHO of course

[dave burrell]

Thanks Jeff, interesting story of Captain Ruh. Just when something seems completely unfeasible, somebody attempts it.
In light of that perhaps it was unwise to say the new field is 400 meters from the Norwich?
To stop any fool from tearing up coral, probably should have fibbed some? If only to stop another boat from tearing up coral hoping for a dollar.
But then again if you named another coral slope that could be destroyed also.
Quite a quandry.
I imagine there were quite a few discussions about just how much info should be released.

[Jeff Victor Hayden]

It's a difficult call for sure Dave. Any Tom, Dick or Harry with a big enough boat could try trawling around Niku without permission from the Republic of Kiribati, with scant respect for the wreckage or the Kiribati government.
Reminds me of the scene in the film Jaws where the hoards of have a go amateur fishermen turn up to have a go at catching the killer shark. The look on Quints face said it all

[Ingo Prangenberg]

I thought I already posted this observation, but either it was deleted or didn't post due to the server move.

In the earlier ROV footage it was rather easy for the eye to be fooled into believing coral chunks appeared to be man-made objects. The current HD footage shows a higher degree of clarity and much better lighting.

After viewing the new video footage repeatedly, two points come to mind.

1. All coral chunks seen in the previous ROV footage were convex. The object of interest in the new HD video appears concave, a feature I have never seen in any coral structure. It does appear that we are looking into an object, rather than on top of its surface.

2. In the HD video there also appears to be an interesting object/opening/shadow that isn’t seen that often in nature. It appears that at 1:10, when viewed at full screen (without the header dropping down), there is a perfect circle in the top left corner. It is great to look at, because it appears so out of place in an underwater setting.