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Author Topic: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?  (Read 42416 times)

Ted G Campbell

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FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« on: November 23, 2009, 07:50:28 PM »

Ric,
We know from the records that the "bones" where found at the base of a tree on Niku and that tree was later cut down to provide wood for the box the bones where shipped in.   The tree was also a prized wood source for other projects used on the island.  What size tree would be worth the effort to cut it down?

Some time ago TIGHAR indicated on a photo of Niku in the 1930/40s where such a tree may have been along the beach of the lagoon.

Has anyone visited the above site to see if there is any tree trunk remaining at the waters edge?  I wouldn't think the natives would have pulled it out by the roots but rather sawed or hacked it down leaving some kind of stump.  Somewhere around this stump there may be found the other bone parts and/or something from the body that the crabs couldn't eat.  A metal detector search might be in order if such a site could be found.

Something to put on the agenda for next May.

Ted Campbell
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2009, 07:59:35 PM »

Gallagher said the bones were found under a "ren" tree.  The coffin built to contain the bones was made from the wood of a "kanawa" tree that stood not far away.  There are no old tree stumps along the lagoon shore (or anywhere else).  The is some very old wood (a former tree) on the ground at the Seven Site but we don't know what kind of tree it was or how old it is.  There is currently a "ren" tree on the site.  They're slow-growing trees and it could be the same tree that sheltered the castaway. There are no longer any "kanawa" trees on that part of the island.

Ric
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Chris Johnson

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 02:18:49 PM »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40605153/ns/technology_and_science-science/

IF this proves to be human what does it say? More bones may be there at the 7 site but mixed with other material?

Role on the 11th and the release of more information into the public domain.
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James G. Stoveken

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2010, 02:54:20 PM »

I read the article that Chris linked in the previous post.  At the end of the article there's a "Comments" section and the very first comment was "After all of these years, Amelia gives us the finger," attributed to woodsyhowl.  After having spent countless hours over the last dozen years reading and following the research on TIGHAR's website, the simple succinctness of that statement struck me with hilarity.  I just had to share it.

Another comment, by Mad1-1045518, referring to a differing theory on Amelia's demise was "Hopefully she was stranded and perished on the island, how horrid it would have been to have to go back and live her life out in NJ."

As a lifelong Jerseyite I take exception to that comment.  But that one cracked me up too.    :)
Jim Stoveken
 
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 02:56:49 PM by James G. Stoveken »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2010, 05:07:09 PM »

IF this proves to be human what does it say? More bones may be there at the 7 site but mixed with other material?

The only way we're likely to know whether or not this fragment of bone is human is if DNA can be extracted and sequenced.  If we can do that we should be able to know whether or not it's Amelia's.
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Ashley Such

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2010, 08:24:47 PM »

I Googled pictures of a turtle skeleton, and I came upon this sketch: http://www.uta.edu/faculty/shreyas/turtle.jpg. Look at what's called the "digit" at the bottom (foot). It looks like the bigger bone in the photograph shown in the article. So, maybe that's what it is?
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Thom Boughton

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2010, 11:42:52 PM »

The only way we're likely to know whether or not this fragment of bone is human is if DNA can be extracted and sequenced.  If we can do that we should be able to know whether or not it's Amelia's.

Ric..

No attempt to rain on the parade.  This is an honest question, asked because I actually have no idea.....

What is your estimation of the statistical chances that DNA can be extracted from bones of that size and in that general condition?



LTM,

....Thom
TIGHAR #3159R
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 08:19:24 AM »

What is your estimation of the statistical chances that DNA can be extracted from bones of that size and in that general condition?

My inexpert guess - Less than 50%.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 01:04:47 PM »

A little of both <to "about real science or getting bums on seats?" - asked by Chris Johnson>. Hyping this bone wasn't our idea.  It's a fact that we suspect that this might be a human bone and that we're hopeful that it will yield DNA. It's also a fact that Discovery likes to have breaking news that will attract a bigger audience for the show. 
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 06:43:05 PM by J. Nevill »
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 02:35:15 PM »

Hum---again not to rain on the parade, but I seem to remember another "bones" media sensation in the mid 1960's.
Hoping to extract DNA, and knowing the results, are in my mind two entirely different things. So, I would assume that eith DNA could not be extracted, or the results were negative. Striking out in the public media certainly does nothing to gain sponsors. Now----if there is inconclusiveness, and some positive form of the Electra was found, I would think that sponsors would line up to help.
Just my opinion, not to offend ANY of the great work of Ric, and of TIGHAR.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 02:43:00 PM »

I'm no scientist so ask this question in good faith!

Can you tell the difference between human bone and Turtle bone without DNA?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2010, 02:47:32 PM »

With such a small fragment, maybe not.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2010, 02:01:28 PM »

Thinking about bones on Niku and the harsh conditions, is it possible? that any bones on the 7 site could be damaged by human passage in recent years.

Also in the early days of inspection did TIGHAR carry cut follage or drag it from the 7 site into the Buka forest? I ask this becasue it may be that human intervention as well as the crabs has spread the remains of the casterway.

If the 'finger' bone was found with Turtle remains, is it worth checking previous samples in case there is a mix of remains?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 05:18:05 PM »

Also in the early days of inspection did TIGHAR carry cut follage or drag it from the 7 site into the Buka forest? I ask this becasue it may be that human intervention as well as the crabs has spread the remains of the casterway.
We've cleared the Seven Site three times (2001, 2007, 2010), each time more carefully than the last, but we have undoubtedly scattered stuff.

If the 'finger' bone was found with Turtle remains, is it worth checking previous samples in case there is a mix of remains?

Tom King has gone through all of the collected remains and sorted fish from bird from turtle, etc.  That's when he realized that we don't have any turtle limb bones.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: FAQ: FOUND Bones, them bones! AE's or Turtle Bones?
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2010, 06:09:53 AM »

Fox News on 12/16/2010 reported that the bone (finger) was indeed human.  Do we have data to support that claim?

We do not have data to support that claim and neither does Fox Noise.
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