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Author Topic: Beach the Electra - what if?  (Read 74525 times)

Greg Daspit

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2012, 10:15:06 PM »

If it floated slightly nose down. And if it is hit by breaking waves at the reef edge it could get smashed into the coral in a nose down position. Cockpit debris falling out on the slope.   Wings, engines, tail also getting smashed
The center section with its empty tanks may have been protected long enough to clear the surf until it sank far away.

If moored, some of the sections could have been prevented from washing away due to being tied down or the stakes or mooring lines snagging on the reef edge. A piece with a line attached could get hung up so some days it is hanging off the reef, underwater and other days it is washed up on the reef. Eventually it gets free and washes ashore or off the reef.
Could explain some of the aircraft debris being seen by some and not others, and also explain washed up debris found years later by Tighar.
And why no big pieces were seen and why little pieces may still be found.
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Monte Chalmers

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2012, 04:16:22 PM »

Quote
So if the post-loss radio messages are still regarded by some people as being genuine then I would suggest that you need to find another uninhabited island and look along the shoreline.
any suggestions?
Monte TIGHAR #3597
 
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Jay Burkett

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2012, 11:17:56 AM »

Gregory,

A couple of thoughts:

1.  I do believe they may have  had tie-down ropes onboard.  I have never been on a light aircraft that didn't.  This aircraft was more like the airliner of its day.  It was pretty large.  Given the likely places they would have landed on their trip it would have been better to have them on board rather than taking a chaince.  The question would be what the aircraft would be tied down to on the reef.  Even if they had stakes or screw in type tie downs I doubt they could have been used on the coral reef.  The war stories from my grandfather.  He told me he tried to dig a fox hole the first night he had arrived on the island (Morotai) and being woken by nightly raid by the Japanese.  He said that he was not able to make much of a headway with a full size pick.  He said that he coral was a lot like concrete or rock.

2.  Have you ever been to a plane wreck?  How about trying to liberate a "souvenir" from a light aircraft wreck or aircraft scrap yard?  I have.  It is not as easy as it sounds.  I have been trying to com up with a likely scenario that would result in the aluminum parts that have been found if they had been liberated from a wrecked aircraft.  The parts I have ended up getting have not been as pristine (with respect to the original shape) as the parts tha have beenrecovered on Niku.  Likewise, these parts don't necessarily look like they were deformed due to a hard landing, impact or crash.  The piece-parts that have been recovered don't look like what I would think that they should look like if the aircraft had been torn apart by wave action.  The are too clean and too much like their probable original shape.
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
Aerospace Engineer
Fairhope AL
 
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2012, 11:48:00 AM »

Monte----the other locations were searched, to no avail. The Gilberts, were going to be at the very end of the fuel range. I think Gary did some of those calculations. I doubt what she could have made it there.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2012, 12:06:02 PM »

Jay,
1. See post 3 of this thread. I posted a picture of the reef and noted the stakes would be driven into the cracks in the reef because I agree it would be too hard to drive them directly ito the coral
2. There are multiple reports of the condition of the debris found on the Tighar web site. They vary in the description and where found and when found. Wave action or explosion is listed as possible for one piece. Also some reports describe bending back and forth like someone salvaged them, some pieces are cut.  Note that some debris was found in the abandoned village like the villagers salvaged the pieces, some from other islands and wrecks, and in later Tighar visits, some debris was found washed up on the beach.
Also you can see some pictures of the debris taken at D.C in this post.
http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,878.0.html
3971R
 
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2012, 09:52:23 PM »

Quote
So if the post-loss radio messages are still regarded by some people as being genuine then I would suggest that you need to find another uninhabited island and look along the shoreline.
any suggestions?

I would suggest the Gilberts - they were an option.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2012, 07:50:50 AM »

Gilberts, well populated so where's the plane?
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2012, 08:02:01 AM »

Gilberts, well populated so where's the plane?

Waiting to be found? No different to Nikumaroro, East New Britain or the bottom of the Pacific.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2012, 08:10:54 AM »

Just getting out of holiday mode so a little rusty but the Gilberts when compared to Niku are well populated and explored. Yes it could be in the bush and hidden from prying eys but by stint of there being more people then there is a higher chance of discovery.

Dosn't mean that the bird got washed away just as the Niku Hypo and something in my grey cells remembers a theory of the plane being off one of the Gilberts (think there may bee a psychic involved as well)
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2012, 08:15:46 AM »

Chris, I recall that too. BUt----if the underwater reef landscape is similiar to Niku, then it would be a pretty big task.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2012, 08:16:38 AM »

Just getting out of holiday mode so a little rusty but the Gilberts when compared to Niku are well populated and explored. Yes it could be in the bush and hidden from prying eys but by stint of there being more people then there is a higher chance of discovery.

Dosn't mean that the bird got washed away just as the Niku Hypo and something in my grey cells remembers a theory of the plane being off one of the Gilberts (think there may bee a psychic involved as well)

It is the mystery isn't it - until it is found it could be anywhere in those places people propose, as Jeff notes. Personally given the fact that's a cold winter here I could do with some of those places.  ;)
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2012, 08:21:04 AM »

Tom,

been off on my hols and can't remember how to search the old forum.  99.9% sure it was some psychic who had remote senssed (sp) the electra as being off one of the gilberts.  Think its more thread drift but if I find it can add it to alternative theories, just need to get back into TIGHAR mode :)
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Daniel Paul Cotts

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2012, 09:05:00 PM »

Several psychics several answers: Ed Dames 1998 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDIvvjorRHc  Claims Micronesia.

Joe McMoneagle 2010  claims Niku but posits a fatal crash on landing.
http://www.monroeinstitute.org/thehub/remote-viewer-joe-mcmoneagle-zeroes-in-on-amelia-earhart-crash-site
http://ameliaearhartarchaeology.blogspot.com/2010/08/book-review-remote-viewers-take-on.html  Review by Tom King.

Both were part of the Military Remote Viewing Program.
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richie conroy

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2012, 01:33:17 PM »

Here is picture i had saved, From Purdue showing tie down on Earhart's

 
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Don Dollinger

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Re: Beach the Electra - what if?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2012, 02:34:03 PM »

Quote
Even Earhart, who we know had a lot of money tied up in the aircraft would not put it down on the outer reef at low tide, when she and Noonan would know that once the tide and waves got up the aircraft would be lost immediately - and if Earhart didn't know Noonan being an old Pacific hand would know.

You describe a circular argument and then try to disguise alot of assumptions as fact.  We have no idea of knowing what Earhart did, nor what they knew concerning the tides at Gardner.  We can garner a guess and you are right back at your OWN circular argument; woulda, coulda, shoulda...

LTM,

Don
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