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Author Topic: Above ground artifact search?  (Read 57502 times)

John Ousterhout

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2013, 11:25:22 AM »

A while back* I conducted a sort of test of how far away I could hear a Beach B18, and was surprised to discover it couldn't be heard somewhat less than 5 miles away.  Based on that experience I would guess that search planes flying over Gardner would not have been heard further than 5 miles away even if they were known to be there.  Add surf and wind noise and the masking effect of trees, and the expected distance an approaching plane might be heard could shrink to a mile or less.  It's a pretty big island for anyone on foot, and aircraft "zooming" over one part might literally be unheard and unseen by someone on the other part.  The masking effect of trees would also hide any maneuvers made by the aircraft while it was on the "other" side of the island, making it impossible to predict where it might next reappear.
I've also been under an impression that the zooming that elicited "no returning wave" might have been done only over the old village location, further restricting the area where the aircraft could be seen or heard.
These ideas give me the feeling that the search was not thorough enough to reliably spot a person on the ground if that person wasn't in a very convenient spot.

*See reply 477 at Re: The flight plan, magnetic course, headwinds.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
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Jeffrey Pearce

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2014, 07:23:57 PM »

John,

A very impressive and thorough narrative!

Here is something from my own personal experience. I have spent alot of time in a house located along the Braden River in Bradenton, Florida. Appproximately six tenths of a mile north of this house is an east-west trending highway. When the wind is coming from the north one can hear traffic on this highway as if someone turned up the volume. When the wind is coming from the south, particularly, or from some other direction than the north the audio of the traffic on the highway is for all practical purposes non discernible. Perhaps adding to the sound amplification is the fact that there is water immediately north of the house and furthermore the Braden River flows just west of the house and also flows NNW from there to the highway.
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Jeffrey Pearce

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2014, 06:30:36 PM »

This is the support mechanism for my bird feeder that is in a Magnolia tree. Hopefully you will see that the tree has absorbed some of the wiring(twistems)that I used to attach the bamboo to the Magnolia tree. This is where the branch is attached to the larger trunk. The twistem was wound pretty tightly to the tree. This encouraged the tree to absorb the twistem. If an object was carried to the top of a palm tree and deposited there(where new frons are coming out and thereby increasing the height of the tree over time) by a bird or other creature I believe it could be possible for the object to become mired in that area by succesive growth year after year.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 06:32:08 PM by Jeffrey Pearce »
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Jeffrey Pearce

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2014, 01:37:56 PM »

The results of my sunday classified newspaper question that was run twice over a three week period is as follows. Absolutely no responses were received. The only thing I can say for sure is that I received no suspicious responses. I think that if similar attempts were made in other newspapers there might be some interesting results?


« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 01:55:26 PM by Jeffrey Pearce »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2014, 02:16:39 PM »

I think that if similar attempts were made in other newspapers there might be some interesting results?

Didn't someone define insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
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Jeffrey Pearce

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2014, 07:19:13 PM »

It's insane only if there is no one living who heard distress calls from AE.
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JNev

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #51 on: August 01, 2014, 08:01:16 AM »

This has been... fascinating.  ???
- Jeff Neville

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Dan Swift

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2014, 08:45:46 AM »

What? 
Oh, and it wasn't Einstein who defined insanity...although he gets credit for it.  He said he never said it.
Walter Hagen said it to Bobby Jones in the movie "Stroke of Genius".  And that match was about 1925, so that statement's been around a while......LOL! 
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Jeffrey Pearce

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #53 on: August 01, 2014, 10:01:09 AM »

Concerning distress calls and the like, what kind of radio did Mrs Klenck's family have and where was it tuned regarding AE's purported distress calls? I plan to use this information for research.



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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #54 on: August 01, 2014, 10:16:15 AM »

Concerning distress calls and the like, what kind of radio did Mrs Klenck's family have and where was it tuned regarding AE's purported distress calls? I plan to use this information for research.

The information you're looking for is in Bob Brandenburg's paper Harmony and Power.  Unless you're conversant in radio propagation analysis you're getting in over your head.
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JNev

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #55 on: August 01, 2014, 10:36:28 AM »

What? 
Oh, and it wasn't Einstein who defined insanity...although he gets credit for it.  He said he never said it.
Walter Hagen said it to Bobby Jones in the movie "Stroke of Genius".  And that match was about 1925, so that statement's been around a while......LOL!

As has the condition, which I have been told bears a 'legal' definition, but no true medical condition, per se.  Apparently whether one is competent or not is a matter of legal function, not whether they are free in sufficient degree from the spectrum of conditions that might interfere with that level of functionality.

---

As to the soup d'jour here, I believe Pearce's intent was to canvass the public such that a person with living recall might be found, as to the Earhart transmissions.  A noble thought, but given that we just lost Betty Klenck Brown - a contemporary and possible (likely, some of us believe) witness, IMHO it seems the odds may be vanishing.

By Ric's comment, I take it that he shares my sentiment to some degree - that such a thing is unlikely to surface at this point in time; hence, repeating the exercise further would not increase the chances of success, at least as some of us see it; were one to feel strongly enough about that lack of prospect then the Hagen-Jones prospect seems to fit (could one rationally expect a different result than that already realized). 

That said, I'd of not bet against Jones taking a second shot...

Mr. Pearce cuts to the obvious, if I interpret it correctly: if we knew no one remains alive who heard the broadcast, then indeed there's no rational way to expect a reply (and one presumably would not waste one's time and money with more ads).  But we don't know that none are alive, do we?  Some are - my dad was a child of 14 and is still with us at 91 (but does not recall having heard Earhart on the radio).

I, and perhaps Ric, seem merely to apply a different standard and expectation than Mr. Pearce: no doubt there are those who lived at the time, but the odds of them now coming forward to report having heard something seem dismally small, hence we might think it pure lunacy to run more ads, were I to state it harshly - which I don't mean.

---

But to return to topic... I wish we could lay our hands on THE radio (an 'above ground' artifact, were it known to exist) Betty used: it would firmly answer a few things, maybe.  An educated guess (or perhaps more than that, depending on your own interpretation) says it probably was a Zenith model 1000Z “Stratosphere.”  "When shown a color photograph of a Zenith 1000Z that had been restored to new condition, Betty positively identified it as the model she had used." 

Or, what Ric just said...
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 10:40:32 AM by Jeffrey Neville »
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Jeffrey Pearce

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #56 on: August 01, 2014, 11:10:12 AM »

Thank you to Ric for his link and to Jeff for his insightful words. I don't plan to work with the electronics myself, but, I plan to give this information to others. I am very sorry to hear the news about Mrs Klenck. I kind of suspected this could be in the offing. My mother was 23 in 1937. Her 1990 model car became unreliable just recently so she had to buy another one. We celebrated her 100th birthday on May 24 of this year.

I just want to find AE as soon as possible. I kind of think I have something in common with her. I try to think of things that could assist in this matter. I know odds are at play in some things, but.

One more question, did anyone in Mrs Klenck's family belong to an organization involved in radio communication?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 11:12:10 AM by Jeffrey Pearce »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #57 on: August 01, 2014, 12:02:57 PM »

One more question, did anyone in Mrs Klenck's family belong to an organization involved in radio communication?

Not that we know of.
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Jeffrey Pearce

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2014, 12:15:02 PM »

I took these pictures a couple days ago in Florida showing a large Osprey nest in a dead tree about 30 yards from a busy road. It is just an example of man made materials that the birds used in the construction process and, yes, the more prominent materials are blue. The nest is large. My camera is in need of replacement as a sharp focus is hard to obtain.
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Jeffrey Pearce

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Re: Above ground artifact search?
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2014, 02:55:34 PM »

These are the photos I referenced in my immediately previous post to this post.
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