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Author Topic: NIKU VII  (Read 274379 times)

Greg Daspit

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #270 on: July 30, 2012, 06:34:18 PM »

Welcome Back NIKU VII

"ARRIVAL REPORT FOR K-O-K 12-07
TIGHAR
JULY 3, 2012 to JULY 29, 2012

1433   Passing Honolulu sea buoy
1500   First line pier 45
1505   Secure starboard side to pier 45

25 days 23 hours 20 min.  Total time underway
3688     NM               Total miles run
49,520  gal               Total fuel consumed
42,366  gal               Total fuel on hand
155     gal               Total lube oil consumed
515     gal               Total lube oil on hand"
3971R
 
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #271 on: July 30, 2012, 07:16:57 PM »

YES!!! ;D
Woody (former 3316R)
"the watcher"
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #272 on: July 31, 2012, 06:24:52 AM »

Great to have everyone back safe and sound. Wonderful job done, now the hard work begins!

It is my feeling that Time ripens all things; with Time all things are revealed; Time is the father of truth.
Francois Rabelais

This must be the place
 
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Jim Doughty

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #273 on: July 31, 2012, 10:49:04 AM »

Hello all,

First post of substance from a new forum member. I also have an entry in the New Members thread.

While the question I have feels worthy of discussion, I do feel as if I'm asking for the back of someone's hand. So here, in a perfectly cheerful and respectful tone, I stick out my cheek:

The focus of Niku VII was the underwater search. However, the opportunities for land-based searching seem to be far from exhausted. In particular, there seems to have been a lot of speculation in recent months about Camp Zero, notwithstanding any additional work that could take place at the Seven Site or elsewhere.

Did TIGHAR consider making Niku VII a combined land-sea expedition? Could a team have been ashore looking for Camp Zero, etc. while the K-O-K performed the operations that actually did take place?

I can think of a few potential reasons why this did not happen.

1. Not enough room on the vessel for additional personnel. Staffing and equipping the underwater search took up the entire available capacity.
2. Unlike the Nai'a, which visited the island for the express purpose of supporting operations ashore, the K-O-K had to move where the underwater search took it and could not keep station for the convenience of launching and receiving boats.
3. Lack of available/willing personnel.
4. Lack of funding necessary for the extra effort (manifestly, since the expedition as scoped is not fully paid for yet).
5. It did happen and I have failed to pay adequate attention.
5. ???

It's easy of course for a forum contributor to spout off and tell TIGHAR what it coulda shoulda done, and I understand the wisdom behind the standard response: If you have the money, pal, go ahead and knock yourself out. I know from having followed previous expeditions that it takes a huge expense in time, money and effort to get a human being onto Niku.

But in this case, that would have been a marginal expense. The ship was there. The arrangements with the Kiribati authorities were made. TIGHAR personnel spent several days with the island right in front of them -- and except for a single short visit, didn't go there.

I raise this not to claim there isn't an answer, but to express my faith that there is one and to satisfy my curiosity about what it might be.

Thanks,
Jim
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #274 on: July 31, 2012, 11:02:47 AM »

While the question I have feels worthy of discussion, I do feel as if I'm asking for the back of someone's hand. So here, in a perfectly cheerful and respectful tone, I stick out my cheek:

 :P

Quote
Did TIGHAR consider making Niku VII a combined land-sea expedition?

Not that I know of.

My completely uninformed guess is "no."

Quote
1. Not enough room on the vessel for additional personnel. Staffing and equipping the underwater search took up the entire available capacity.

I doubt it.  The KOK can carry a lot of people, it seems:
  • CREW: 13
  • SCIENTIFIC PERSONNEL: 19
  • SCIENTIST: 10
  • PISCES-V: 6
  • ROV: 3
Quote
2. Unlike the Nai'a, which visited the island for the express purpose of supporting operations ashore, the K-O-K had to move where the underwater search took it and could not keep station for the convenience of launching and receiving boats.

A grain of truth, but probably could have been worked out. 

Quote
3. Lack of available/willing personnel.

Doubtful.

Quote
4. Lack of funding necessary for the extra effort (manifestly, since the expedition as scoped is not fully paid for yet).

That seems most likely to me.

Quote
But in this case, that would have been a marginal expense. The ship was there. The arrangements with the Kiribati authorities were made. TIGHAR personnel spent several days with the island right in front of them -- and except for a single short visit, didn't go there.

I raise this not to claim there isn't an answer, but to express my faith that there is one and to satisfy my curiosity about what it might be.

We may eventually hear something in TIGHAR Tracks.  At this time, I'm not conscious of having heard an official answer to your question. 
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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John Balderston

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #275 on: July 31, 2012, 07:22:44 PM »

AV Web is running the following Niku VII news item:

Earhart Searchers Return, Will Examine Data
July 31, 2012
By Mary Grady,
Contributing editor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A team from The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery has returned to Hawaii after searching a reef on a remote Pacific atoll in search of evidence to support their theory that Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan ditched their Lockheed Electra there. The team spent about a week exploring the site with a research ship, using submersible vehicles, but reported no definitive signs of the airplane. However, the team collected "volumes of new sonar data, thousands of photographs and hours upon hours of high-definition video," Kate Aconfora, a spokesperson for the Discovery Channel, told AVweb. The TIGHAR team will now be "reviewing and analyzing" all of that material, she said.

This was TIGHAR's 10th expedition in search of definitive evidence of the fate of Earhart and her navigator, Fred Noonan. Nikumaroro is about 1,800 miles from Hawaii, and 400 miles away from Howland Island, which was Earhart's planned destination. Earhart and Noonan vanished 75 years ago during an attempted round-the-world flight. Aconfora said the results of the team's analysis will be revealed on a Discovery Channel special at 10 p.m. on Sunday, Aug. 19.

John Balderston TIGHAR #3451R
 
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #276 on: August 01, 2012, 02:26:29 AM »

Jim D asks:

"Did TIGHAR consider making Niku VII a combined land-sea expedition? "

Actually, the answer is yes, this was discussed at some length in several variations, combined on one ship, combined on separate ships visiting at the same time, and two expeditions independent of each other.  We even discussed drafting a "castaway corp" of indentured servants to be dropped off on the island and live unsupported by the ship for the duration of the deep water work.  I volunteered, but there weren't too many enthusiasts behind that idea :-) 

"Could a team have been ashore looking for Camp Zero, etc. while the K-O-K performed the operations that actually did take place?"

In theory, yes, this could have been done, but when the planning was being put in place, Camp Zero was not really a target we were thinking much about, so the discussions were focused on how to work at the 7 site while a deep water search was going on.  Logistics to the reach the 7 site are considerably more complex than Camp Zero as a lagoon based launch is needed to move down the lagoon, and in turn that means a fuel depot on the lagoon side shore, etc.  The castaway corp idea would have required yet another level of logistical planning and implementation.

There was enough room on the KOK to accommodate if we had really wanted two teams to go there.  May not have been comfortable, but probably could have been done, and I'm sure we could have mustered willing participants for a ground based team.  As you point out the incremental costs would have been relatively small.

But in the end it was the logistical issues surrounding having one deep water search ship try to support both a deep water search, and a ground based search. The big money was getting spent on searching the deep water, every hour out there was going to be extremely expensive - something like $3500 an hour.  By comparison, the Naia costs about $950 / hour or less.  It became clear that every hour that the ship was not engaged in supporting the deep water search was not a good use of the resources at hand.  As you point out the KOK had to follow the AUV about and breaking off to deal with land based operations would have either cut short the deep water work, and not breaking off would have forced the land based team to operate on the AUV schedule, which as we saw, became extremely variable.

Anyway, the upshot was not to try to combine the two efforts.  It is better to focus the assets on hand on what they are efficient at doing.  A shore based search would have reduced the effectiveness of an already difficult deep water search.

So, the search for Camp Zero will have to wait until we head back for more shore based work.

Andrew
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #277 on: August 01, 2012, 04:57:57 AM »

Looks like Discovery is set on the Aug 19 air date. I wonder if that means good news or bad news? The press release didnt sound like it was positive for aircraft wreckage.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #278 on: August 02, 2012, 07:08:18 AM »

Yes, everybody is now home safe and sound.  With so much post-expedition work to do, I'm not able to participate in these discussions as much as I'd like, but I'll take a moment here to say that our decision not to try to combine a land search with the underwater search turned out to be a wise one. 
First of all, KOK is limited by law to a maximum of 19 in the scientific party.  There's no wiggle-room to add extra berths.  We could not have added a land team if we wanted to.
Second, supporting the AUV at night and the ROV during the day kept the ship completely occupied.  The only time we were able to put people ashore during the entire time we were there was for a couple of hours on the afternoon of the 17th while the ship was making repairs to the propulsion system after rescuing the AUV that morning.
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #279 on: August 02, 2012, 07:14:25 AM »

hey RIC------from all of us here, welcome home. Glad everyone is safe. Surely do hope the Discovery show has some good news. Great news would be even better.
Tom
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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John Hart

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #280 on: August 02, 2012, 07:34:49 AM »

Ric,

I add my welcome home. I finally read your book and it was very helpful bounding the issue. Wish I had more time to pursue. Particularly decision making process. Details about earlier decisions in flight, PAA SOP that may be instructive to FN thinking although flying boats have more options than land planes, etc.

Hope your review of data is productive.

Regards,

JB
TWW
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Jim Doughty

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #281 on: August 02, 2012, 12:00:27 PM »

Thanks to all for thoughtful replies to my question about land operations.

Happy to see that Ric and crew have returned safely. Can't wait to see the Discovery broadcast.

Jim
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #282 on: August 08, 2012, 03:55:16 PM »

Discovery Special on Saturday August 19th, at 10:00PM    10:00 PM in which ime zone???  Eastern, Central,Mountain,  Pacific, Hawaii?????   Geez.
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #283 on: August 08, 2012, 04:09:52 PM »

Er,  Sorry   Sunday, August 19th  10:))PM  Which time zone??
No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)
 
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: NIKU VII
« Reply #284 on: August 08, 2012, 04:46:39 PM »

Er,  Sorry   Sunday, August 19th  10:))PM  Which time zone??

Looking at the Discovery Channel website and their posted schedule, their program times are valid for both ET/PT.

And, as of right now, it looks like their daily schedule is only fully fleshed out through Thursday, August 16.  Stay tuned!  JITS! (Just In Time Scheduling)
LTM,

Bruce
TIGHAR #3123R
 
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