Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28]   Go Down

Author Topic: After the Landing  (Read 281397 times)

Stacy Galloway

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #405 on: August 14, 2013, 09:52:09 AM »

So, Ian, you're imagining this woman- who flew the plane and shunned female norms- landed on Niku and proceeded to fan herself and gripe about the heat while sitting in the shade of a coconut tree using freckle cream watching her man do the hunting and gathering? Really? Perhaps she ate bon-bons while loosening her corset and adjusting her skirts. My goodness- why did she even leave the kitchen?

And then she withered away and died because her man didn't bring her any more food... how, ummm, interesting.

I never thought of putting Amelia into a Victorian romance novel. For me, I'll leave her where she is- a forward-thinking woman who lived her dreams.

LTM~ Who doesn't see Amelia in Gone with the Wind,
Stacy
Thank you, Jeff, for the warm welcome :) I do enjoy being part of TIGHAR.

I find Ian's post quite humorous. Where to start? The ham sandwich? Crying about sand in  her shoes? Or perhaps nagging about the distress signal... So much to choose from... And it reads like a romance novel. I was expecting the "she fell passionately into his arms" scene, but alas it wasn't there. Maybe next time :)

And Jeff, I always find your posts quite informative and relevant- thank you for everything you do!

LTM~ Who's wondering where the sand came from,
Stacy

Humorous? Are you sure? Hm... I still have the problem with English, but if I uderstood it well, that post is a quite offensive towards Amelia. Perhaps it´s only a foreign language misunderstanding, but...

Can't speak for Stacy, but I took that to mean despite any affront she has a great sense of humor.  Maybe 'Ian' does too - we simply don't know him too well... so far as we can tell for certain.  Perhaps we'll hear more.

Thank you, Jeff! Once again your answer is perfect! :)
TIGHAR #4284R
 
Logged

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2955
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #406 on: August 14, 2013, 09:59:18 AM »

I'm not saying what you write isn't true, but I can't find any source for that info in the forum archives or the Ameliapedia and you do not provide any citation in your message.

My apologies.

I've been reading the Forum since 2000.

Some day I will make an entry for "bamboo pole" in the Ameliapedia.

For now, here is a Google search that turns up some of the material on the website.  If you substitute "navigator's station" for "bamboo pole," that may bring up some other hits.

Here is an outline of articles in the Ameliapedia that should give a newcomer a good orientation.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
Logged

David Deusenberry

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #407 on: August 14, 2013, 10:27:10 AM »

The bamboo pole was my mistake. I seemed to have confused the different flights.  Sorry
The only point I was trying to make was that FN might not have been gravely injured in the landing and the “Yelling” that was heard by Betty could have been him yelling from his station in the rear of the Electra as he went over maps and charts trying to pin point their location and relay the information to AE. With the engines running to power the radio it would have been very noisy inside. I’m sure from what Betty heard he was injured but to what extent remains unknown.
 
I’m also wondering if a forensic analysis on the fish and bird bones has been performed to try to match marks left on them that could be matched to one of the improvised cutting tools found. I’m not sure if that information would be useful other than proving the castaway (s) used the item  for that purpose
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5547
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #408 on: August 14, 2013, 10:39:52 AM »

I’m also wondering if a forensic analysis on the fish and bird bones has been performed to try to match marks left on them that could be matched to one of the improvised cutting tools found. I’m not sure if that information would be useful other than proving the castaway (s) used the item  for that purpose

No, we haven't done that but it I doubt that anything conclusive would come of it.
Logged

David Deusenberry

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #409 on: August 14, 2013, 12:06:42 PM »

I'm not sure even if it was a possitive match it would prove anything. I highly doubt the locals would have used a broken jar from the 30s to clean fish. Just thought if it could be linked to a "castaway" that the great minds here might be able to use that information to establish a definitive timeline or something. It was just a thought.
Logged

Ian_Withnall

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #410 on: August 14, 2013, 07:09:53 PM »

Hi,

Sorry if I offended anyone. Call me inspired by an incredible story!

And yes it was meant to be light entertainment only. Always good to give the brainiaks around some fodder to quote to I suppose.   

To clarify, I think Amelia is quite fantastic, exceptionally brave and you just don't get to within 7000 miles of a round the world trip in 1938 without some incredible persoanl clout and ability at the controls. 
 
I think the idea of them being trapped on that island waiting for rescue very sad and and a great tragedy. Alternatively I think them clinging to sinking wreckage in the middle of the Pacific pretty raw too. But I just don't see that happening. Either way.

I also think FN was more than likely a gentleman who would never ask a lady wrestle and then slit the throat of a passing sea turtle. But when you find the diary I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

So apologies if I upset anyone. Not my intent.

I watched the aerial tour video of Niku...; Gives a good perspective on the difficulties you all face.

Regards

Ian
Logged

Stacy Galloway

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #411 on: August 14, 2013, 08:43:11 PM »

Hi,

Sorry if I offended anyone. Call me inspired by an incredible story!

And yes it was meant to be light entertainment only. Always good to give the brainiaks around some fodder to quote to I suppose.   

To clarify, I think Amelia is quite fantastic, exceptionally brave and you just don't get to within 7000 miles of a round the world trip in 1938 without some incredible persoanl clout and ability at the controls. 
 
I think the idea of them being trapped on that island waiting for rescue very sad and and a great tragedy. Alternatively I think them clinging to sinking wreckage in the middle of the Pacific pretty raw too. But I just don't see that happening. Either way.

I also think FN was more than likely a gentleman who would never ask a lady wrestle and then slit the throat of a passing sea turtle. But when you find the diary I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

So apologies if I upset anyone. Not my intent.

I watched the aerial tour video of Niku...; Gives a good perspective on the difficulties you all face.

Regards

Ian

No offense taken :) Like you, I don't see their demise as them clinging to a sinking plane in the middle of the Pacific.

TIGHAR has loads of valuable information the Niku theory. I, and others greater than I, have been impressed enough to throw our support behind this theory. Whether it be research, financial, moral or a combination all of the above, most of us are here in support of TIGHAR's goal.

Welcome aboard, Ian :) It may be a bumpy ride, but TIGHAR will find Amelia and Fred one way or another.

LTM~ Who didn't crash and sink in the Pacific,
Stacy
TIGHAR #4284R
 
Logged

Victor Russell

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #412 on: August 14, 2013, 10:19:22 PM »

My apologies.

I've been reading the Forum since 2000.

Some day I will make an entry for "bamboo pole" in the Ameliapedia.

For now, here is a Google search that turns up some of the material on the website.  If you substitute "navigator's station" for "bamboo pole," that may bring up some other hits.

Here is an outline of articles in the Ameliapedia that should give a newcomer a good orientation.


Marty, Ric, Matt, John -

Thanks for the quick replies; I appreciate the added context and info. Thanks as well for being a "living repository" of collected knowledge that the site can only approximate. Marty, I recognize how much effort goes into adding content to the site and keeping things effectively tagged, indexed, and -- in the case of the Ameliapedia -- curated. It's an amazing resource and the effort is appreciated.

To John's suggestion, I have already read Ric's book -- I bought and read it more than a year ago when I first became aware of TIGHAR's work. Since then I've been staying up with the latest forum postings while trying to systematically backfill from archived postings, archived content like the research bulletins, and the Ameliapedia articles.

The biggest challenge for me, no doubt familiar to most here, is accurately tracing the evolving nature of the explorations, hypotheses, and evidentiary trails. For those who have been a part of things for 20+ years, that history has been lived, but for those of us coming to the mystery and TIGHAR's work more recently, we're confronted with an ever-growing documentary archive that often records the various stages of investigation and refined/updated interpretation, but the full chronology and latest positions are not always immediately apparent. For example, early on in my review of the site I somehow came across and was intrigued by the early reports of Bruce Yoho's recollections regarding the engine supposedly airlifted from Niku to Canton (http://tighar.org/Publications/TTracks/13_1/cantonengine.html), but only later did I see the brief epilogue in the Ameliapedia and a link to a later Tighar Tracks that reported on the story being deemed apocryphal, or at least the Niku part of it.

That all just reinforces Marty's frequent (and well-intentioned!) admonitions to newcomers to read, read, read before posting. I take that to heart, but expect I speak for many others when I say that given the dynamic nature of TIGHAR's work and discovery and the inability of any textual archive to completely tie all those threads together in a foolproof way, there are likely to be many more slips and oversights to come. Thankfully there's a big community here to catch and correct.

Best,
Victor
Logged

Ian_Withnall

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #413 on: August 20, 2013, 02:00:05 AM »

Don't flame me but this is where I spent family holidays....

http://www.ozatwar.com/nt08.htm

I'm posting it as an account of people landing on a mud/sand/coral flat.... it has a brief but personal and colourful account of what one might do in a distressed aircraft with a non functioning radio while at sea. 

I think the following points are of note.

In particular the mention of a sighting of tree tops. I think that's pretty important.
The initial response to the crash and the assumption that they realised they may need to spend at least some time there imediately. 
The use of fire and a mirror to attract attention.
That the plane had its' wheels up. I don't know why they did but is it common practice?
Only 30 years later we never found the machine guns they had dropped  ;D.

In 1975 we used to catch fish off it at high tide from a canoe and try to pull bullets out of it at low tide. The bullets were cemented into the plane with oysters. Apart from that, everything on the plane was pretty much useless as a recyclable object. Even to small boys!

I think this image was taken in 1979
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/vengeance/A27-208/vengence-beach4.html#axzz2cUYlDrfy

It has brief relevance to the hypothesis for the reasons mentioned.

Read below.

Cheers.

Ian

At 1500 hours on 23 May 1943, Vultee Vengeance A27-208 of 12 Squadron RAAF, made a force landing on Dum In Mirrie Island, Port Patterson, after an electrical fire on board. The crew was Sergeant John Sheehan and Sergeant Williams. The aircraft was not recovered.

It was one of 15 Vultee Vengeances that took off from Batchelor to participate in a Fighter Interception Test. They headed over Melville Island and then Darwin where they did a dummy "bombing run" of the town. They were intercepted by Spitfires who followed them as far as Coomallie Creek.

While transiting to Melville Island, A27-208 had left the formation when pilot John Sheehan had to throw his Vengeance into a steep right hand turn to head for the coast when he discovered an electrical fire on board. His radio was not functioning, so he was unable to advise his flight leader of his predicament.

Sheehan had been flying in shoes and socks rather than the issue flying boots and molten electrical insulation was dripping onto his ankles. The fire in the fuse box was adjacent to a 17 gallon fuel trap tank. Sgt. Sheehan decided to take a risk and continue flying towards the coast.

Finally through the heat haze Sgt. Sheehan saw some tree tops on a low, flat island. He then spotted a long section of level sand at the front of the island. He made a wheels up forced landing on the sand. John Sheehan flew out of the aircraft, well before Williams, whipped off his shoes and socks, and headed for the tidal pools to cool off his burnt ankles.

They grabbed all that they could carry from the aircraft and headed across the tidal flat to the island. Unfortunately, the tide started to come in at a great speed. Darwin tides typically rise and fall 20 to 30 feet twice a day. They quickly dropped the machine gun and ammunition to lighten the load. Other goodies were also dropped in the race to shore.

They built a mosquito net tent from their parachutes in readiness for a night on the island. The lit a fire the next morning to attract the attention of a Vengeance on its daily anti-submarine patrol. Later on that morning, they increased the size of the fire, and by using a signal mirror and Verey flare they were eventually able to attract the attention of another Vengeance that was searching for them. They were subsequently rescued by a Seagull flying boat a few hours later.

 
Logged

pilotart

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #414 on: October 21, 2013, 10:04:37 AM »

Thanks Ric,

8 minutes isn't a lot of time though of course it didn't have the additional fuel tanks that are claimed to add buoyancy.

Any other Electra sized examples I wonder,  am not enough of a plane fan to even know what models to search for.  Like cars I shouldn't imagine that planes are designed for a 48 hour cruise across the pacific.
'Miracle on the Hudson' comes to mind first, plenty of time to safely evacuate and it never really sank.  This is despite the fact that the Airbus has a special "Ditch-Switch" that seals outflow valves and intakes, but was never activated by the crew, a complete load of fuel that did not spill and a passenger panic rear door opening flooding that caused it to float tail low.  You will notice that passenger briefing cards now include a note about not opening exits after a ditching unless instructed by the Crew.

Another 'Miracle Landing' from the Pre-Jet Airline era was an emergency Mid-Pacific Ditching with All Passengers Saved and the Coast Guard had to later sink that Plane with gunfire. 

A lot depends upon the sea-state and skill of the pilot to ditch with minimal deformity of the airframe.  Aircraft are always much lighter for their volume than automobiles so they usually don't sink so quickly, but original VW's were sealed so completely that they would float like corks.
Art Johnson
 
Logged

Steve Lyle Gunderson

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 60
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #415 on: November 22, 2013, 10:51:13 PM »

"Yes, I've seen something similar and there are images all over the web of human remains underwater but I believe those conditions are very specific to preservation. While this is not my field of expertise I would say that based upon what I can see, the underwater environment that was photographed during the expedition is extremely dynamic and full of seemingly uncountable life forms. To say that something like human remains (a food source) would survive for 70+ years is not something I would be convinced of without credible proof. With my current knowledge of that system I would say near impossible."


I found the following information today regarding the remains of a German submarine crew from 1944. Thought I would share for general interest.

Steve G
#3911R
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: After the Landing
« Reply #416 on: November 23, 2013, 01:43:13 AM »

Cheers Steve I could only find German sites.  I think its a case of the remains being still inside the sub.  If you've ever read Shadow Divers about the Sub U-Who you will find that they also found remains, most prominently skulls in the wreck.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28]   Go Up
 

Copyright 2019 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Powered by PHP