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Author Topic: 11 Tubes?  (Read 56870 times)

Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2012, 09:56:03 AM »

Still trying to find out what the aluminium cylinders looked like though. They were stored in the aft section of the plane and, being aluminium they might have survived given their location in the airplane. They might be useful in identifying wreckage. I think Lindbergh was involved in the same type of experiments so will try that route as well.
This must be the place
 
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Gary LaPook

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2012, 05:52:42 PM »

These could be the brackets referred to in the previous post. I can't see them on any other pictures of Lockheed Electra Model-10.
Not 100% certain yet, have to wait to see if it passes the 'Gary' test, just kidding Gary :D


The hold open props were designed to hold the door open far enough so that Noonan could use the Mk2 driftmeter to take observation toward the tail which is necessary for determining the wind encountered in flight. There was also a mounting bracket for the driftmeter to hold it in the opened door with its "lubber's line" (the index line) aligned with the longitudinal axis of the plane which is necessary for drift readings Then, if necessary, Noonan would drop a "drift bomb," a self igniting floating flare at night or a container of aluminum powder during the day, to mark a spot on the ocean surface on which Noonan would focus to measure the drift. This whole operation requires the door to stay open for about five minutes each time a drift reading was required. See information about this process here.
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richie conroy

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2012, 06:17:07 PM »

maybe of no use, but thought i would post it anyway.

a view of inside rear of plane viewed from outside

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richie conroy

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2012, 06:20:20 PM »

it's not a very clear image, but am sure objects can be outlined an verified  :)

o an it is a photo taken at darwin 
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richie conroy

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2012, 06:30:58 PM »

not sure were i found this but it might me of intrest

about drift bomb or sumthink


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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2012, 07:56:53 PM »

The hold open props were designed to hold the door open far enough so that Noonan could use the Mk2 driftmeter to take observation toward the tail which is necessary for determining the wind encountered in flight.

That may be true.  Or the door props could serve a dual purpose - drift meter and pole.  Do you have document that the door props were specifically for the drift meter?
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Ricker H Jones

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2012, 08:25:45 PM »

The Time piece on July 19, 1937 that Richie mentioned pulled no punches regarding Earhart's cavalier preparations for the World Flight:

"Several facts made it clear that much more than simple bad luck was involved. Before the
hop-off, when capable Navigator Noonan inspected what he supposed was an ultra-modern
"flying laboratory," he was dismayed to discover that there was nothing with which to take
celestial bearings except an ordinary ship sextant. He remedied that by borrowing a modern
bubble octant designed especially for airplane navigation. For estimating wind drift over the sea,
he obtained two dozen aluminum powder bombs. For some reason these bombs were left behind
in a storehouse. The Coast Guard cutter Itasca, which had been dispatched from San Diego to
Howland Island solely as a help to the flyers, would have been able to take directional bearings
on the Earhart plane if the latter could have tuned its signals to a 500-kilacycle frequency. The
plane's transmitter would have been able to send such signals if it had had a trailing antenna.
Miss Earhart considered all this too much bother, no trailing antenna was taken along. Finally,
the Itasca's, commander would have had a better idea where to look if the plane had radioed its
position at regular intervals. But not one position report was received after the plane left New
Guinea. In fact only seven position reports are known to have been radioed by the flyers during
their entire trip."
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Gary LaPook

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2012, 10:26:49 PM »

The Time piece on July 19, 1937 that Richie mentioned pulled no punches regarding Earhart's cavalier preparations for the World Flight:

"Several facts made it clear that much more than simple bad luck was involved. Before the
hop-off, when capable Navigator Noonan inspected what he supposed was an ultra-modern
"flying laboratory," he was dismayed to discover that there was nothing with which to take
celestial bearings except an ordinary ship sextant. He remedied that by borrowing a modern
bubble octant designed especially for airplane navigation. For estimating wind drift over the sea,
he obtained two dozen aluminum powder bombs. For some reason these bombs were left behind
in a storehouse."
 
We discussed the errors in this magazine article, see prior posts.

Regarding the drift bombs we now have three different stories of where they were left behind, the one in this story, in Miami and under Noonan's bed in Lae. Take your choice of which story to believe, one, two, all three or none. I'm going with none.

gl
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Gary LaPook

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2012, 10:44:15 PM »


That may be true.  Or the door props could serve a dual purpose - drift meter and pole.  Do you have document that the door props were specifically for the drift meter?
Sure, the props that held the door open for drift sights could also be use to hold the door open when Fred went back to "catch a bug" as Earhart wrote.

I have attached a reprint of a March 7, 1937 article as documentation, see page 192 from Morrissey's book.

We discussed this before here.

gl
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2012, 07:01:54 AM »

So these brackets on the outside of the fuselage were for the door props which allowed the door to be 'wedged' open a few inches for probably a dual purpose, as Ric mentioned.
1. To allow for instrument sightings
2. To allow the 'skyhook' to be deployed without Fred having to hold it for 30 minutes or so



This is the skyhook Charles Lindenbergh used for the same experiments for the department of Agriculture. Can't say for sure yet if it is the same as the one AE and FN had on board but, it was for the same department and, the same person in charge of the experiments, Dr. F. Meier of the United States Department of Agriculture.

The red arrow points to the 'handle' which Fred would have to hold and, the blue arrow points to the tube which the aluminium collection cylinders were attached to.



http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A20030071000

However, AE states that they had brackets fitted to the Electra at Miami which negated the need for Fred to hold the skyhook for 30 minutes or so in the slipstream while collecting the pollen/spores.
Quote
We devised a mechanical refinement for our sky hook. Noonan was too busy to hold it extended through either the cockpit window or the door of the fuselage, had either arrangement been practical. So, at Miami, we had brackets fitted to the side of the ship just behind the fuselage door. when this door was open a couple of inches, which was easily done, the device was clamped in these brackets, and the cylinder manually opened. Then for a period of thirty minutes of so nature took its course. subsequently the cylinder was closed, sealed and the place and time of it exposure recorded.

Which leads me to the conclusion that the brackets/clamps that AE refers to were fitted to the inside of the fuselage and, fred would then attach a new cylinder to the skyhook, place it into the brackets/clamps on the inside of the fuselage then open the door, fit the door props into the brackets visible on the outside of the fuselage slide the skyhook out into the slipstream and clamp it into position and, away we go for 30 minutes or so.
If all this sounds about right then, I need to look inside the fuselage for the skyhook brackets/clamps, which, should be somewhere near the door as AE states
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2012, 07:21:38 AM »

I will see if I can find pictures of the inside of the fuselage near the door area which might show the brackets/clamps and, have another scan through the ROV footage. Richie?
As mentioned previously this exercise is to try to pin down objects, items, fiitings that were exclusive to this flight and, would not be found on any other airplane wreckage except AE and FN. Every little helps.
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2012, 08:28:15 AM »

Looks like the door-cracker was dual purpose.  Cool.

LTM -

Doubt if they needed it on the passenger plane versions though Jeff  ;)
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2012, 09:52:50 AM »

The area in the yellow box looks promising. It's on the inside of the possible fuselage remains, it's near the possible door (white arrow). Could be one of the brackets/clamps for skyhook IMHO

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richie conroy

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2012, 04:33:03 PM »

so what are we looking for the bar or the brackets or both ?  :)
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Gary LaPook

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Re: 11 Tubes?
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2012, 04:37:41 PM »

I would assume not - normal 'passenger' L10E's would have no need for the bug catcher exercise or extended navigation capabilities.  I would expect this to be a distinct feature of NR16020.
I agree, if you find those braces then you have convincing evidence that you have found NR16020. Good luck!

gl
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