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Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 06, 2012, 07:51:50 PM

Title: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 06, 2012, 07:51:50 PM
Just been going through the Luke field inventory and, it's pretty straightforward and I can picture most of it ok. The only thing on it that has me perplexed is...

Roll containing:  11 Tubes sealed and marked as follows...

3 bureau of plant industry,
8 office of cooperative extension service, department of agriculture, Washington, DC.

Can someone enlighten me as to what on Earth they are and, what they looked like ?
 :-\
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 06, 2012, 07:56:16 PM
Earhart was doing an experiment whereby she (or rather Noonan) would use tubes attached to a pole mounted just outside the cabin door to take samples of the air hoping to catch pollen or insects at altitude.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 06, 2012, 08:08:28 PM
Earhart was doing an experiment whereby she (or rather Noonan) would use tubes attached to a pole mounted just outside the cabin door to take samples of the air hoping to catch pollen or insects at altitude.

Ok Ric, thanks for that. That would explain the department of agriculture + bureau of plant bit. So would be something that would help to identify the wreckage if found?
I'll see what I can find re: the experiment
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 06, 2012, 08:08:43 PM
just like a comment earlier i read on facebook, someone asking if Tighar would get them some sand sample's as they have loads of samples from round the world except Nikumorro random or what  :)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 07, 2012, 06:14:02 AM
What a coincidence! While researching the '11 tubes' atmospheric experiments that AE and FN were conducting for Dr. Fred C. Meier of the Department of Agriculture on their round the world flight, what do I find? He also vanished in a trans Pacific aircraft disappearance...

At 6:08 AM on July 29th, 1938 Hawaii Clipper, NC 14714 call sign KHAZB lifted from the waves heading for the Philippines, leaving Guam behind for the last time. Along the way Hawaii Clipper would send out half hour weather and position reports to KMGB at Guam, KZDY at Panay in the central Philippines, and to KXBQ in Manila.
 ■At 12:00, Hawaii Clipper transmitted in the clear her on the hour report: "KHAZB, Flying in rough air, 9,100 feet. Temperature 13 degrees centigrade. Wind 19 knots per hour from 247 degrees. Position latitude 12 degrees 40 minutes east. Dead reckoning. Ground speed make good 112 knots. Desired track 282 degrees. Rain. During past hour cloud conditions have varied. 10/10ths of the sky covered by cumulus clouds whose tips were 9,200 feet. 5/10ths of hour on instruments. Last direction finder bearing from Manila 101 degrees true."
 ■At 12:11 KZDY at Panay acknowledged Hawaii Clipper's report and requested permission to transmit the noon weather sequence. Hawaii Clipper signaled, "Stand by for one minute before sending as I am having trouble with rain static."
 ■At 12:12 KZDY Panay requested for the second time permission to transmit the weather sequence, and receved no reply. Hawaii Clipper had vanished. The official time of her disappearence was listed as 12:11
 ■By 13:30 the Pacific bases were put on emergency standby, and by 00:01 the U.S. Navy had fifteen vessels, six long-range bombers, and two small amphibians combing the sea between Guam and the Philippines.
 
With half hour position reports and RDF bearings which had been taken by the three monitoring stations the U.S. Navy searched for over a week and found nothing. No wreckage, no bodies, no debris, nothing.
 
Immediately after receiving word from Manila the U.S. Army transport ship Meigs, which had been sailing just 70 miles from Hawaii Clippers noon position began her search. During the 29th hour of her search Meigs spotted an oil slick just 28 miles from Hawaii Clipper's last known position. The oil slick was a 1,500 foot circle of oil rolling with the sea and Meigs launched a boat to take oil samples, which later proved not to have come from Hawaii Clipper.
 
No bodies, no wreckage, no debris. Hawaii Clipper had vanished.


http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/s-a-m-13-the-hawaii-clipper-mystery (http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/s-a-m-13-the-hawaii-clipper-mystery)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Irvine John Donald on April 07, 2012, 08:07:52 AM
Should have looked on Gardner.  Seriously though, we have to remember that flying today is much safer than the 30's.  In this case it was likely something mechanical and catastrophic for the clipper not to have been able to land on the water and wait for rescue, or it did and was just never found.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 07, 2012, 08:21:41 AM
Very strange Irv. I was just doing some research into what these 11 tubes looked like and discovered that the chap AE and FN were doing the experiments for vanished in another missing airplane incident over the Pacific a year later, 1938 (another project?). Oh well, back to the research although it might now turn out to be a bit more difficult.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Irvine John Donald on April 07, 2012, 10:13:12 AM
Perhaps that's the aircraft in the ROV video?   ::)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 07, 2012, 01:21:31 PM
Perhaps that's the aircraft in the ROV video?   ::)

Too many engines and not enough wheels Irv  ???
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 08, 2012, 07:49:55 AM
Aluminium cylinders...Brackets fitted to door at Miami...
The reason I put this thread on the forum was that I am compiling a list and photographs/diagrams of objects that were unique to this particular flight which might at some stage provide a useful means of identifying any airplane wreckage. Objects that no other airplane would have on board in this particular location and time. So far I have included the auxillary fuel tanks with accompanying rods, levers and valves. Am trying to add the 'aluminium cylinders' to list if I can find pictures/diagrams.

Quote
That entry ended that particular batch of skywrit recordings. Unexplained it could imply something intimate and embarrassing. Actually what it referred to was remote and scientific. The creature to be caught was a micro-organism of the upper air. Fred C. Meier of the Department of Agriculture equipped me with a "sky hook" similar to that carried by colonel Lindbergh in his 1933 Greenland flight. this is a device to obtain in flight samples of air content which are then preserved in sealed aluminum cylinders for microscopic outside of the plane the cylinder is turned so that the slide within it is exposed to the moving air and gathers upon it whatever minute beasties may inhabit the particular stretch of atmosphere just then being flown through.
 
We devised a mechanical refinement for our sky hook. Noonan was too busy to hold it extended through either the cockpit window or the door of the fuselage, had either arrangement been practical. So, at Miami, we had brackets fitted to the side of the ship just behind the fuselage door. when this door was open a couple of inches, which was easily done, the device was clamped in these brackets, and the cylinder manually opened. Then for a period of thirty minutes of so nature took its course. subsequently the cylinder was closed, sealed and the place and time of it exposure recorded.
 
By the time Africa was reached we had a dozen or more such recordings. in the directions given me, Mr. Meier wrote: "This phrase of research was originally opened by Louis Pasteur in classical experiments recorded in 1860 which have since been followed by medical men and botanists of many countries. The results of our new upper air studies bring to light fundamental principles lead to many practical applications, perhaps the most important of which are improved measures of control of diseases of plants and animals." To get the hang of how to handle them we "exposed" a couple of alumimum cylinders before starting. I happened hat Fred coughed upon a slide of one of these. "That's ruined," he said, starting to throw it away. "The collection of germs on that slide would look like a menagerie under a microscope."
 
But I insisted on adding that cylinder to our collection. l thought it would give the laboratory workers something unique to ponder when they came upon its contents among the more innocent bacteria of the equatorial upper airs. Heaven knows what cosmic conclusions Fed's contribution might help them reach! . . . such absurd procedure must be debited to a pilot's perverted sense of humor.

http://www.janesoceania.com/oceania_amelia_earhart2/index.htm (http://www.janesoceania.com/oceania_amelia_earhart2/index.htm)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 08, 2012, 08:17:20 AM
These could be the brackets referred to in the previous post. I can't see them on any other pictures of Lockheed Electra Model-10.
Not 100% certain yet, have to wait to see if it passes the 'Gary' test, just kidding Gary :D

(http://)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Irvine John Donald on April 08, 2012, 08:27:43 AM
Would anyone open the fuselage doors a couple of inches to replace a cylinder in the brackets OUTSIDE the aircraft without wearing a parachute?  Wouldn't this lend credibility to whether they carried parachutes for the entire flight?
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 08, 2012, 08:33:33 AM
Would anyone open the fuselage doors a couple of inches to replace a cylinder in the brackets OUTSIDE the aircraft without wearing a parachute?  Wouldn't this lend credibility to whether they carried parachutes for the entire flight?

Good point Irv. I would have preferred to have at least been wearing a line if not the chute.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 08, 2012, 09:30:29 AM
There were short folding "stops" on the inside of the door that held the door open just enough to place or remove the pole for catching "bugs."  I think you would have to work at falling out the door in-flight.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Irvine John Donald on April 08, 2012, 09:47:55 AM

Not to diminish the parachutes notion, but cracking the door a couple of inches against the slipstream should not have been a big deal.  In fact, doors on airplanes often 'volunteer' to an opening of about that much, but resist further opening with some pressure - all a product of natural slipstream.  Whether FN would have put a chute on for that exercise would more likely depend on his level of paranoia about getting jarred out of the airplane than real danger, IMO, BUT I wasn't there - and maybe he insisted on that for all I know.  For instance, I don't know how difficult it was to 'clamp' the fixture into those brackets through the crack in the door - hopefully easy and quick, but 'hope' is not a plan.

LTM -

Thanks Jeff. I appreciate a pilot's input on this. If the picture that Jeff H posted in fact shows the brackets, and it's likely, then I would hope its a one handed job to replace the tube. But you still have to get your arm out that door.  ANY safety gear would be smart but "smart" wasn't always used in the planning or execution of this trip.
Thanks to Ric for the post on the door props.   I was hoping this would be a good piece of corroborative evidence on the carrying of parachutes but I see now there were other options.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 08, 2012, 09:56:03 AM
Still trying to find out what the aluminium cylinders looked like though. They were stored in the aft section of the plane and, being aluminium they might have survived given their location in the airplane. They might be useful in identifying wreckage. I think Lindbergh was involved in the same type of experiments so will try that route as well.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Gary LaPook on April 08, 2012, 05:52:42 PM
These could be the brackets referred to in the previous post. I can't see them on any other pictures of Lockheed Electra Model-10.
Not 100% certain yet, have to wait to see if it passes the 'Gary' test, just kidding Gary :D


The hold open props were designed to hold the door open far enough so that Noonan could use the Mk2 driftmeter to take observation toward the tail which is necessary for determining the wind encountered in flight. There was also a mounting bracket for the driftmeter to hold it in the opened door with its "lubber's line" (the index line) aligned with the longitudinal axis of the plane which is necessary for drift readings Then, if necessary, Noonan would drop a "drift bomb," a self igniting floating flare at night or a container of aluminum powder during the day, to mark a spot on the ocean surface on which Noonan would focus to measure the drift. This whole operation requires the door to stay open for about five minutes each time a drift reading was required. See information about this process here. (https://sites.google.com/site/fredienoonan/topics/measureing-and-determining-wind-speed-and-direction-while-in-flight)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 08, 2012, 06:17:07 PM
maybe of no use, but thought i would post it anyway.

a view of inside rear of plane viewed from outside

Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 08, 2012, 06:20:20 PM
it's not a very clear image, but am sure objects can be outlined an verified  :)

o an it is a photo taken at darwin 
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 08, 2012, 06:30:58 PM
not sure were i found this but it might me of intrest

about drift bomb or sumthink


Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Ric Gillespie on April 08, 2012, 07:56:53 PM
The hold open props were designed to hold the door open far enough so that Noonan could use the Mk2 driftmeter to take observation toward the tail which is necessary for determining the wind encountered in flight.

That may be true.  Or the door props could serve a dual purpose - drift meter and pole.  Do you have document that the door props were specifically for the drift meter?
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Ricker H Jones on April 08, 2012, 08:25:45 PM
The Time piece on July 19, 1937 that Richie mentioned pulled no punches regarding Earhart's cavalier preparations for the World Flight:

"Several facts made it clear that much more than simple bad luck was involved. Before the
hop-off, when capable Navigator Noonan inspected what he supposed was an ultra-modern
"flying laboratory," he was dismayed to discover that there was nothing with which to take
celestial bearings except an ordinary ship sextant. He remedied that by borrowing a modern
bubble octant designed especially for airplane navigation. For estimating wind drift over the sea,
he obtained two dozen aluminum powder bombs. For some reason these bombs were left behind
in a storehouse. The Coast Guard cutter Itasca, which had been dispatched from San Diego to
Howland Island solely as a help to the flyers, would have been able to take directional bearings
on the Earhart plane if the latter could have tuned its signals to a 500-kilacycle frequency. The
plane's transmitter would have been able to send such signals if it had had a trailing antenna.
Miss Earhart considered all this too much bother, no trailing antenna was taken along. Finally,
the Itasca's, commander would have had a better idea where to look if the plane had radioed its
position at regular intervals. But not one position report was received after the plane left New
Guinea. In fact only seven position reports are known to have been radioed by the flyers during
their entire trip."
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Gary LaPook on April 08, 2012, 10:26:49 PM
The Time piece on July 19, 1937 that Richie mentioned pulled no punches regarding Earhart's cavalier preparations for the World Flight:

"Several facts made it clear that much more than simple bad luck was involved. Before the
hop-off, when capable Navigator Noonan inspected what he supposed was an ultra-modern
"flying laboratory," he was dismayed to discover that there was nothing with which to take
celestial bearings except an ordinary ship sextant. He remedied that by borrowing a modern
bubble octant designed especially for airplane navigation. For estimating wind drift over the sea,
he obtained two dozen aluminum powder bombs. For some reason these bombs were left behind
in a storehouse."
 
We discussed the errors in this magazine article, see prior posts (https://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,559.msg7822.html#msg7822).

Regarding the drift bombs we now have three different stories of where they were left behind, the one in this story, in Miami and under Noonan's bed in Lae. Take your choice of which story to believe, one, two, all three or none. I'm going with none.

gl
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Gary LaPook on April 08, 2012, 10:44:15 PM

That may be true.  Or the door props could serve a dual purpose - drift meter and pole.  Do you have document that the door props were specifically for the drift meter?
Sure, the props that held the door open for drift sights could also be use to hold the door open when Fred went back to "catch a bug" as Earhart wrote.

I have attached a reprint of a March 7, 1937 article as documentation, see page 192 from Morrissey's book.

We discussed this before here. (https://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,525.msg7421.html#msg7421)

gl
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 09, 2012, 07:01:54 AM
So these brackets on the outside of the fuselage were for the door props which allowed the door to be 'wedged' open a few inches for probably a dual purpose, as Ric mentioned.
1. To allow for instrument sightings
2. To allow the 'skyhook' to be deployed without Fred having to hold it for 30 minutes or so



This is the skyhook Charles Lindenbergh used for the same experiments for the department of Agriculture. Can't say for sure yet if it is the same as the one AE and FN had on board but, it was for the same department and, the same person in charge of the experiments, Dr. F. Meier of the United States Department of Agriculture.

The red arrow points to the 'handle' which Fred would have to hold and, the blue arrow points to the tube which the aluminium collection cylinders were attached to.

(http://)

http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A20030071000 (http://www.nasm.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?id=A20030071000)

However, AE states that they had brackets fitted to the Electra at Miami which negated the need for Fred to hold the skyhook for 30 minutes or so in the slipstream while collecting the pollen/spores.
Quote
We devised a mechanical refinement for our sky hook. Noonan was too busy to hold it extended through either the cockpit window or the door of the fuselage, had either arrangement been practical. So, at Miami, we had brackets fitted to the side of the ship just behind the fuselage door. when this door was open a couple of inches, which was easily done, the device was clamped in these brackets, and the cylinder manually opened. Then for a period of thirty minutes of so nature took its course. subsequently the cylinder was closed, sealed and the place and time of it exposure recorded.

Which leads me to the conclusion that the brackets/clamps that AE refers to were fitted to the inside of the fuselage and, fred would then attach a new cylinder to the skyhook, place it into the brackets/clamps on the inside of the fuselage then open the door, fit the door props into the brackets visible on the outside of the fuselage slide the skyhook out into the slipstream and clamp it into position and, away we go for 30 minutes or so.
If all this sounds about right then, I need to look inside the fuselage for the skyhook brackets/clamps, which, should be somewhere near the door as AE states
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 09, 2012, 07:21:38 AM
I will see if I can find pictures of the inside of the fuselage near the door area which might show the brackets/clamps and, have another scan through the ROV footage. Richie?
As mentioned previously this exercise is to try to pin down objects, items, fiitings that were exclusive to this flight and, would not be found on any other airplane wreckage except AE and FN. Every little helps.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 09, 2012, 08:28:15 AM
Looks like the door-cracker was dual purpose.  Cool.

LTM -

Doubt if they needed it on the passenger plane versions though Jeff  ;)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 09, 2012, 09:52:50 AM
The area in the yellow box looks promising. It's on the inside of the possible fuselage remains, it's near the possible door (white arrow). Could be one of the brackets/clamps for skyhook IMHO

(http://)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 09, 2012, 04:33:03 PM
so what are we looking for the bar or the brackets or both ?  :)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Gary LaPook on April 09, 2012, 04:37:41 PM
I would assume not - normal 'passenger' L10E's would have no need for the bug catcher exercise or extended navigation capabilities.  I would expect this to be a distinct feature of NR16020.
I agree, if you find those braces then you have convincing evidence that you have found NR16020. Good luck!

gl
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 09, 2012, 06:01:26 PM
Jeff H

page 56 of rov topic i mentioned a u bolt hoding wires together will try finding object as it might of been 2 bars ?
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 10, 2012, 06:53:43 AM
Jeff H

page 56 of rov topic i mentioned a u bolt hoding wires together will try finding object as it might of been 2 bars ?

Something like that Richie. Take a look at the Lindbergh skyhook on previous page and, see how it's constructed. Not found image of 'aluminium cylinders' fitted to the skyhook ,yet, but there were 11 of them on board.
The idea is to identify kit that is unique only to this flight. Most airplanes have wings, control surfaces, engines, undercarriage, fuselage etc...
What most airplanes don't have is what we're after, auxillary fuel tanks with rods, levers to control the distribution of fuel, skyhook and aluminium cylinders and bracket/clamps, door props and brackets and, anything else that would be unique to this flight. Good work Richie.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 11, 2012, 05:11:57 PM
What about AE's sunglasses?  Very distinctive artifact if found... on the dash?

LTM -

Only if she had them made especially for her Jeff  ;)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 12, 2012, 12:54:36 PM
Hope to be putting up some images this weekend regarding the kit carried onboard (unique to this flight). Would very much appreciate help in trying to identify said items. Images not from reef so we should all be able to see them ;)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 12, 2012, 04:03:43 PM
u say not on reef ? they under water or in wreckage ?
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 12, 2012, 07:50:21 PM
u say not on reef ? they under water or in wreckage ?

No Richie, it's gear being loaded onto the Electra that I need help in identifying.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 13, 2012, 05:58:23 AM
from critical past video's ?

be intresting if any of the equipment seen in video's, would have made it to end of round the world flight ?

just a couple pics,

is it poss if they did carry life raft on flight. thats what can be seen arrow left in pic covering fuel tanks from direct sunlight ?

and arrow right is putting to what could be the bar used for gettin samples ? 

Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 13, 2012, 06:23:16 AM
Yes it's hard to tell Richie, stuff comes and goes on this flight but, as it was a flying laboratory it would make sense that the experimental equipment was still on board at the Lae departure point.
http://youtu.be/X7dKPThKGdg (http://youtu.be/X7dKPThKGdg)
Here's a couple of stills from the loading at Oakland now, it doesn't say if it was the first or second attempt but, the Luke field inventory was completed after the first attempt went pear shaped and, that inventory contained everything that was shipped back to Oakland for attempt number 2.
Yes, I know it wasn't the last footage of AE like the title says is incorrect.
(http://)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 09:09:42 AM
march 13th according to 1 of other videos
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 14, 2012, 09:27:31 AM
march 13th according to 1 of other videos
What do you make of A and B Richie?
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 11:17:24 AM
A is reflection of light probably from person behind camera filming, an B might be the rod used for experiment but given what little space there is in fuselage...

even when not extended it would take alot of effort  :)

Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 14, 2012, 11:32:05 AM
A is reflection of light probably from person behind camera filming, an B might be the rod used for experiment but given what little space there is in fuselage...

even when not extended it would take alot of effort  :)
I thought A would be a candidate for their skyhook. B I thought was the the hook to hold the door open but, that is further down in the shot, so B is still a mystery.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 11:33:25 AM
sorry got them wrong way  ::)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 11:41:52 AM
i have loads of pics of electra these are the hooks to hold door ajar

 
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 11:48:29 AM
look at this pic an there is a bar on door,  that must swivel from right to left ?
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 11:56:19 AM
jeff will try find out were this photo was taken

bottom left corner seems there is quite a few tubes there
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 12:07:16 PM
the above pic is on the purdue website it's a airport they landed at 
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 12:44:05 PM
Jeff maybe some good still's u can get from this video

on 10 minutes he says he has over a thousand images


i bet he can't produce a photogragh of aft section of electra  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OJDAeBHcz0&feature=related
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 14, 2012, 12:50:34 PM
on the video at 13:56 that is not rear of electra is it as the scope is wrong side ?
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: richie conroy on April 16, 2012, 01:44:29 PM
Jeff

any chance the 11 small tubes could have been stored in one big 1

or were maps put in it 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4728434349/in/photostream/
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 17, 2012, 01:24:10 PM
Hard to say Richie, it looks like a map holder but, not knowing what the tubes/aluminium cylinders looked like yet doesn't make it any easier. The contraption marked A in the first image I put up looks promising and was hoping someone might have confirmed it or shot me down by now. It might be something to do with navigation?
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 19, 2012, 03:36:27 PM
Yes it's hard to tell Richie, stuff comes and goes on this flight but, as it was a flying laboratory it would make sense that the experimental equipment was still on board at the Lae departure point.
http://youtu.be/X7dKPThKGdg (http://youtu.be/X7dKPThKGdg)
Here's a couple of stills from the loading at Oakland now, it doesn't say if it was the first or second attempt but, the Luke field inventory was completed after the first attempt went pear shaped and, that inventory contained everything that was shipped back to Oakland for attempt number 2.
Yes, I know it wasn't the last footage of AE like the title says is incorrect.
(http://)

I am RELIABLY informed that object A in the photo is a set of weighing sclaes used to weight he kit being loaded on the Electra, so that's not their version of the skyhook. Object B I considered to be the reflection from the lighting but, not sure.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 19, 2012, 04:42:59 PM
The 11 aluminum tubes referred to in the Luke field inventory look like this, or very similar. These are the ones Lindbergh used with his skyhook and, AE and FN used the same, or very similar one to Lindbergh, he designed it.

These aluminium tubes fitted onto the end of the skyhook

(http://)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 19, 2012, 04:57:47 PM
Woody, thank's for this link, it's a great resource and gives us all a big help in identifying the kit loaded on to the Electra. Good man!!

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675063657_Amelia-Earhart-Putnam_Fred-Noonan_transatlantic-flight_Fred-Noonan (http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675063657_Amelia-Earhart-Putnam_Fred-Noonan_transatlantic-flight_Fred-Noonan)
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Jeff Victor Hayden on April 26, 2012, 08:19:28 AM
The point of this thread was to establish what items, if found by image or physical capture, would leave no doubt as to whose airplane wreckage we are looking (if that's what it is). The 'smoking gun' that so far has eluded the Tighar hypothesis. For example, if the skyhook or the aluminium tubes which attach to it could be located then there would be little doubt as to the owner of the wreckage (if that's what it is) IMHO
I'll see if I can come up with some more 'unique to this flight' images, every little helps.
Title: Re: 11 Tubes?
Post by: Sheila Shigley on December 09, 2016, 01:59:23 PM
A closer look at the tube cap, and the note accompanying the tubes carried by Lindbergh, which gives a little more detail about the contents one could expect to find in AE's tubes if in fact the technology had remained the same or similar.

Here's a very detailed 1935 article (http://media.npr.org/documents/2013/jan/meier-lindbergh-1935.pdf) by Meier himself along with field notes by Lindbergh--full of info, pictures and diagrams. Just found it, so I don't yet know what treasures it holds.

A long shot (and for that matter, I don't know when the US military initiated fingerprinting for servicemen), but if Noonan did collect samples and, per the procedure described, seal the tubes with adhesive tape, his fingerprint could conceivably be on the tape and tubes.