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Author Topic: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012  (Read 84089 times)

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2012, 10:22:06 AM »

Re: Jeff Neville's discussion of the conference transcipts -- the transcripts I found must have just been part of the conference.  Would you please post links to the ones you read?

So far as I know, the State Department transcript only contains Hillary Clinton's opening speech.  But the video on that page shows the whole event.

Quote
Also, it would sure be interesting to see a Research Bulletin about the Photek/State Department analysis.  That might help tide me over until the real search begins.......................

Ric and Pat are the authors of most such Research Bulletins.  They are preoccupied at the moment with other things.  I imagine that they will try to get out at least one TIGHAR Tracks before the Symposium in June.  That is where they are most likely to discuss the new analysis of the photo.
LTM,

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Dave McDaniel

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2012, 02:27:39 PM »

Here is a little different look at the enhanced photo that Mr. Smith posted. I have not enhanced it any further but I have super over-exposed it. This was done using Microsoft Office Picture Manager. To achieve this, brightness was increased by +50%, contrast increased by +100% and midtones were decreased by -100%. No other alterations to the photo were made. They are best veiwed at a zoom of +400% to +800%.

Just out of curiosity, I applied the same effects to both the Brevington and Nessie photos found in " Hiding in plain sight " dtd: 12 apr 2010. Although the results were simular, they did not produce quite the detail as Mr. Smith's photo nor was I able to enhance them to the level that he was able to. I would love to see the level of enhancement that the the State Department was able to obtain!

LTM,
Dave
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richie conroy

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2012, 05:13:17 PM »

yes it's hard to get clear image of nessie due to picture resolution  ::)

even the over head image, i have of Nessie is bad due to resolution

so in process of enhancing  :)

We are an echo of the past


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Gary LaPook

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2012, 04:43:29 AM »

Here is a little different look at the enhanced photo that Mr. Smith posted. I have not enhanced it any further but I have super over-exposed it. This was done using Microsoft Office Picture Manager. To achieve this, brightness was increased by +50%, contrast increased by +100% and midtones were decreased by -100%. No other alterations to the photo were made. They are best veiwed at a zoom of +400% to +800%.

Just out of curiosity, I applied the same effects to both the Brevington and Nessie photos found in " Hiding in plain sight " dtd: 12 apr 2010. Although the results were simular, they did not produce quite the detail as Mr. Smith's photo nor was I able to enhance them to the level that he was able to. I would love to see the level of enhancement that the the State Department was able to obtain!

LTM,
Dave
It look like another Rorschach blot to me, I see horsies and a rainbow, what do you see?

gl
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2012, 09:10:44 AM »

Hi Dave.  I have to agree with Gary on this enhanced picture.  Can you outline or highlight what you are seeing?
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Dave McDaniel

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2012, 01:29:21 PM »

I gotta agree with you, it is very abstract looking! And I apolize for not being more specific in my earlier post. The method here is to washout all back-scatter except for the the item in question. I left the most prominet back ground in to give a sense of scale to the landing gear, which is in the foreground or bottom of the picture. Gone are the surf, beach and reef. This over-exposure technique was something I learned while attending The Naval Postgraduate School's Aviation Safety Officer crs. back in the 80's.

What I see are components consistent to that of a main landing gear. Of note specificly is the large ballon tire with a rather small wheel hub assy. attached to what appears to be a pretty much intact landing gear strut assy. Due to the over-exposure some of the detail of the upper portion of the strut was washed out. Not enough resolution.

I am posting a cropped picture that only shows the item in question. It is best viewed using a magnification of 200% - 800%

BTW if anyone finds any psychological or artistic value to the pictures by all means use them to every advantage! LOL!

LTM,
Dave
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2012, 01:36:57 PM »

I see both a landing gear stut and a key hole.

 :P
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2012, 05:54:06 PM »

Dave---I have to admit I'm probably not the one best to speak of this, since my brain is clouded by what I want to see. But---the top certainly resembles the trunnion pivot point, and the bottom the big Goodyear turf tire. I think after seeing the picture that was taken and initially posted here some of us walked the plank and said it looked like a gear strut. Looks to me that most everyone agrees that it is worth investigating.
HUM------I wonder (aloud) if the stills that Richie and Jeff processed from the ROV video were of THIS strut? We wont know that until the submirsibles go down, find it, plot the GPS location, and we can corrolate that location with the picture. Any bets?
Tom
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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richie conroy

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2012, 06:15:08 PM »

Dave---I have to admit I'm probably not the one best to speak of this, since my brain is clouded by what I want to see. But---the top certainly resembles the trunnion pivot point, and the bottom the big Goodyear turf tire. I think after seeing the picture that was taken and initially posted here some of us walked the plank and said it looked like a gear strut. Looks to me that most everyone agrees that it is worth investigating.
HUM------I wonder (aloud) if the stills that Richie and Jeff processed from the ROV video were of THIS strut? We wont know that until the submirsibles go down, find it, plot the GPS location, and we can corrolate that location with the picture. Any bets?
Tom

Tom u have seen what we have been able to do,

to enhance Rov still's, so u can imagine the detail i have been able to achieve of Nessie

However as Marty stated if Ric an Co have terms to keep too, due to upcoming  trip then nothink we can do  :(

what i would give to be on the Trip  :D

erm

the wife

kids

dog's

only kiddin  :)

We are an echo of the past


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Dave McDaniel

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2012, 09:13:08 PM »

Tom- Sorry but I'm not familiar with the particular ROV picture you are referring to. I tried to keep up with the thread but after the first fifty or so pages it kind'a got away from me. If you want to refrence a page I would be more than happy to check it out.

My guess is, if this is in fact a landing gear with tire attached, which it appears to be, it would not stray far from the piont in the original picture. It is obviously being held in place by something, most likely the reef. Sand could do it but there seems to be alot of tire showing so I doubt it. Also the picture shows the strut standing upright. Seems kind'a strange since the trunnion is attached to a fortified area of the airframe. Given the elastitivity of rubber and the applied energy of force it would take to tear the landing gear away from the airframe. landing gears are not designed to take excessive torsional stress, I would expect see something different. I will say this: the bouncy of a landing gear is some what less than that of a manhole cover. Even though it would have compressed air and oil in the oleo, it would not make a differnce. While the tire may or may not have been torn from the rim it would surely be saturated over time. Another thing that is not discernable from the photos is the scissors linkage. Since the gear seems to be intact at the time the photo was taken it's reasonable to assume that it was, at least in part. However, it or the hardware attaching it would be the weakest parts of the assy., even as tough as they are. When found it may not be in one peice.

IMHO, if it is the landing gear, it will be found not far from where the picture was taken. At what debth I couldn't say. If the reef has as steep a dropoff as I have gathered from the information on this site over the years, I would say very deep. Think large anchor!

LTM,
Dave
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2012, 09:39:14 PM »

Dave---here are the pics I was talking about. First is Richies's still from the ROV video showing a potential submerged gear strut. 2nd---a 10E gear froma crash site in Idaho--I think-shows clearly how its made. 3rd-Richie & Jeff's enhanced pis of the submerged target. 4Th--pic of AE next to the landing gear.
I thought the same thing about being near where Nessie's location was. But what made me rethink that theory was the large steel parts of the Norwich City that have been redeposited on the reef and beach from wave and tidal action. The parts are pretty large and weigh alot more than a gear strut. These are shown in the helicopter video of the island. So, imagine a gear strut, or some other parts of the Electra now being tossed around by currents. Literally they could be anywhere, but the ROV video, and Richies still show a pretty good location. I suspect the the ROV crews on this expedition have a pretty good place to look. Its there---I can feel it
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pilotart

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2012, 11:25:23 PM »

Been away from the net for a while and the first I saw of this was a release that I just read from Flying Magazine:

http://www.flyingmag.com/pilots-places/pilots-adventures-more/state-department-joins-earhart-search#comment-20277

Most of the comments were not factual or nice, so I placed a comment of information that I have mostly learned from TIGHAR and Rick's Book.

I have yet to have a chance to follow any of the links posted in this thread, but look forward to that soon; looks interesting and best of luck with it all.

Art
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Dave McDaniel

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2012, 01:25:05 AM »

Tom - I took alittle time and went over the pictures in your post. Thanks for posting them. As far as the ROV stills go all I can say is that there is definitely a shape there that does not fit. It is angular and does not fit the surounding enviorment. It is simular in shape to the lower half the Electra 10E landing gear. But without a sense of scale it is impossible, for me anyway, to tell if it is an airplane part or a lost anchor. I disregaurded the black rope or whatever it turns out to be as a distraction as it was not aircraft related. However it does appear to be laying under the gear shaped object and that would indicate that it got there first. Or there is another object on top of it that gives the photo this appearance. Without some measurement of scale and much higher resolution it's impossible for me to make a qualified guess. Irregaurdless of scale I do think that, in proportion, a outcrop of that size ( landing gear:outcrop) could snag and support a landing gear before it hit the sea floor.

I tried my best to keep up with Richies' threads but time got the best of me. I commend him on his eye for detail, diligence and determination. This is how things get done.

As far as the landing gear parts being wisked away buy the sea/tidal currents I really don't think that's too much of a concern.
the aero/hydrodynamics of landing gear is pretty much that of a brick. Gravity prevails. Where as large, heavy, flatplate objects tend to pitch, roll and yaw while fighting gravity. And you're absolutely right, they can be displaced greatly given enough altitude or height above sea floor. But landing gear parts and radial engines, they may roll, but only on the way to the bottom. Not alotta drift there!

Which brings me to a place I really didn't want to go. The close proximity of the landing site and the wreck/debris of the Norwich City.

LTM
Dave
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2012, 02:01:44 AM »

Dave,

don't get hung up about the Norwich City Wreck.  Nessie is to the North of the wreck and the prevailing tides flow from North to south so wreckage from the ship would not be moved towards Nessie.

However this dosn't stop wreckage from the electra being mixed with the Norwich City if it remained on the reef edge.
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Press Conference at State Department, 20 March 2012
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2012, 05:00:56 AM »

All

Virtually all of the NC wreckage is to the south of the wreck, within only a few meters, nothing moves to the NW.

We surveyed the reef via SCUBA from where Nessie is seen, following each underwater channel from offshore to the surf line and back, and down to about 60 ft, so I don't think we're going to find it in the shallow water on the reef face.

My guess is that Nessie would have eventually have initially been driven shoreward, and later scavenged, discarded, or washed into the lagoon, or back out to sea, so the odds of finding it are pretty small.  The importance is that IF it is a Lockheed Electra landing gear, the rest of the aircraft is not far away, and that "collapses the search box" in the words of Dr. Ballard, into a size that significantly increases the odds of discovery.  Every search wishes for a definitive "Last Known Position" from which to work from, and this gives us one that is reasonable to base a search on.

Andrew

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