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Author Topic: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival  (Read 251705 times)

Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #195 on: April 05, 2012, 08:15:14 PM »


Malcolm
If you look at the first item on this thread you will see:
"Let;s assune that they did land on Gardner, they did send out radio messages for 5/6 days, they did expect rescue by the Itasca folks within 2/3 days, etc and see where the thread goes."(emphasis mine, hjh)  Which word do you not understand?
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #196 on: April 05, 2012, 08:28:18 PM »

Wow. I must say that this is getting really weird. I heard one time that ancient astronauts flew their ships to earth. I bet James Cameron found some at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.
I know that the expedition leaves Hawaii on July 2-3 bound for Niku. People alot smarter than me are going to search around and find what is on the reef, and the ocean bottom where we 'think' the plane may be.
All theories are just that, until investigated, and proven one way or the other. I for one hope it is the Electra. But, I'll leave that to Ric & Co. to prove the theory correct.

Conjuring up a weird idea that FN tied a rope on the electra and pulled a lifeboat off the island is wayyyy out there--as much as me winning the lottery.
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #197 on: April 05, 2012, 08:52:01 PM »


Malcolm
If you look at the first item on this thread you will see:
"Let;s assune that they did land on Gardner, they did send out radio messages for 5/6 days, they did expect rescue by the Itasca folks within 2/3 days, etc and see where the thread goes."(emphasis mine, hjh)  Which word do you not understand?

The point of that is what exactly? As I see it TIGHAR are investigating a hypothesis that Earhart and Noonan landed on the reef fringing Nikumaroro Island where after an unknown period of time they died. That in itself is a hypothesis worthy enough not to need any embellishment with hypothetical situations.

As for "and see where the thread goes" I would with respect argue that all my comments are well within any imaginary extrapolations that that comment implies. The idea of the Electra towing a beached lifeboat into the water demands some consideration of whether the means to do so were actually present. That includes rope, a seaworthy lifeboat, the possibility that the lifeboat could actually be moved and importantly if those conditions were met could the Electra have actually acted as a tractor.

Simply put if the intention is to allow the creation of a deux ex machina to resolve the matter of Earhart and Noonan's hypothetical existence on Nikumaroro Island then perhaps someone ought to create another thread clearly intended to encourage a fictional account of the fate of Earhart and Noonan on the island.  :)     
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #198 on: April 06, 2012, 01:29:41 AM »


or if they did have parachutes tie one or both them to boat maybe the wind wud get strong enough to pull it off shore into water  ::)

just thinking aloud  ;D

A standard parachute lowers as 200 pound person at 20 feet per second, 13.6 mph. What this means is that a 13.6 mph wind into a standard emergency parachutes will make 200 pounds of pull.  If you double the wind speed it will produce four times the pull, 800 pounds at 27.2 mph. However, in the Gardner area in July,  94% of the time the wind is less than 24 mph. So doing the math, with a wind of 24 mph a parachute will make only 623 pounds of force, is that enough to move a lifeboat?

gl
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 04:00:26 PM by Gary LaPook »
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #199 on: April 06, 2012, 01:52:29 AM »


According to page 15 of report 487 each engine created 2150 pounds of thrust, a total of 4300 pounds, see attached.

gl
But, of course the 4300 pounds of thrust would not all be available to tow the lifeboat because some of the thrust would be necessary to move the plane itself. The coefficient of friction (actually the coefficient of rolling resistance) on pavement is 0.02, on turf it is 0.04 and on tall grass it is 0.10. There is no published coefficient of frition for airplane tires rolling on a reef partially submerged in the sea but it certainly will not be less than 0.10 and might be up to 0.5 or even more. At 0.10 for a 7,000 plane it would take 700 pounds of thrust to move the plane and if it was 0.5 it would take 3,500 pounds leaving very little left to move the lifeboat.

gl

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Gary LaPook

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #200 on: April 06, 2012, 02:37:35 AM »

The Electra would even if it could be coaxed into moving could not get a straight pull. But far more important is that as I explained that there is nowhere to attach this hypothetical rope, and by the way there is no indication that EA and FN had a couple of hundred yards of rope on board or available to them on the island.


What do you mean, "no indication of rope available to them?" Remember the Norwich City, it's a ship, Duh. What do they have on ships? Rope.

O.K. I've got to stop doing it. I have to confess to being an agent provocateur.  I only made up the idea of "Electra as tow truck" to poke fun at the idea of Earhart and Noonan being able to launch a very heavy lifeboat. And even if they could get a boat into the water how would they get it out through the surf? Read the report of the difficulty of rescuing the Norwich city crew.  I thought you guys would get it but I guess we have too many literalists on the forum.

Hmmm... but if they constructed a simple "A" frame over the lifeboat to lift it up and swing it forward, using that rope reeved though pulleys that Noonan carved out of coconuts.......stop it, stop it, stop it.

gl
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 03:04:59 AM by Gary LaPook »
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JNev

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #201 on: April 06, 2012, 04:35:25 AM »

Oh, stop it, Gary... yer killin' me...  :D

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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #202 on: April 06, 2012, 07:59:35 AM »


Hmmm... but if they constructed a simple "A" frame over the lifeboat to lift it up and swing it forward, using that rope reeved though pulleys that Noonan carved out of coconuts.......stop it, stop it, stop it.

gl

Hmmm ....... I can just see it now Amelia and Fred opening an arts and craft shop on Nikumaroro for passing tourists while offering paraglider rides on the reef towed by the Electra.  They'd make a fortune. ;)   
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #203 on: April 06, 2012, 01:12:21 PM »

ok---so where is Gilligan, Skipper, the Professor and the rest?  20 hour flight or a 3 hour tour---
Getting the Electra to do much of anything other than send radio signals is like patching the hole in the SS Minnow
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richie conroy

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #204 on: April 06, 2012, 02:47:46 PM »

ok---so where is Gilligan, Skipper, the Professor and the rest?  20 hour flight or a 3 hour tour---
Getting the Electra to do much of anything other than send radio signals is like patching the hole in the SS Minnow

i think

if they sent radio signals for 7 nights after going missing we know electra was out of water

in my opinion if they had landed ok they would have moved electra upto the sandy path by the tree's

so if the landing gear snapped off while landing it explains why it was submerged when navy plane flew over an fred was injured

do we know from, were we speculate nessie was, how far the water receeds from there ?
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richie conroy

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #205 on: April 06, 2012, 02:53:13 PM »

ok---so where is Gilligan, Skipper, the Professor and the rest?  20 hour flight or a 3 hour tour---
Getting the Electra to do much of anything other than send radio signals is like patching the hole in the SS Minnow

i think

if they sent radio signals for 7 nights after going missing we know electra was out of water


in my opinion if they had landed ok they would have moved electra upto the sandy path by the tree's

so if the landing gear snapped off while landing it explains why it was submerged when navy plane flew over an fred was injured

do we know from, were we speculate nessie was, how far the water receeds from there ?

meaning were ever the electra landed it was there to stay  :)
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #206 on: April 06, 2012, 03:10:17 PM »

Richie----I think Ric and Andrew were at the 'spot' at low tide, and it was close to the reef edge. I'm not sure how far---maybe it in here somewhere. I'm thinking that on roll out, AE may have tried to turn the Electra to the right, towards the beach, and insstead of the wheel/tire assembly 'bouncing' over the crevass, it got stuck in it, tossed Fred around, and caused some structural problems with the gear mount. The tides and wave action of the next few days finished it off. If that theory has any substance, then there is no way the e;ectra towed a raft/ilfeboat to the water.
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richie conroy

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #207 on: April 06, 2012, 03:23:09 PM »

i doubt they ventured far enuff away from electra to find the life boat in the week or so following the landing  :)
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JNev

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #208 on: April 06, 2012, 04:37:11 PM »

WILSON!!!!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Deserted Island, Castaways, Survival
« Reply #209 on: April 06, 2012, 08:45:51 PM »

I can see the sign now -

Noonan's Nifty Nikumaroro Knick Knacks

with other signs saying

Earhart's Original Electra Towed Water Skiing

And behind it a row of tastefully eco-friendly palm frond roofed tourist cabins all with private saunas and hot tubs and the traditional feeding of the coconut crabs at 5.00 every afternoon.

Club Med Nikumaroro - the holiday of a lifetime.  ;)
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