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Author Topic: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland  (Read 312152 times)

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #390 on: March 15, 2012, 01:22:36 PM »

Relative to the "steering wheel", perhaps she was in the habit of removing it to prevent  someone from stealing her precious plane, but that presents the question of why not both steering wheels?  details, details, details.

Gary correctly identified both the tailwheel and the steering wheel, as far as I can tell, by consulting the Luke Field Inventory--items 45 and 65.  The co-pilot's wheel was removed and carried as a spare, presumably to give FN more space to take sights from the cockpit.  Lots of greases and oils are in the inventory, too.
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #391 on: March 15, 2012, 01:52:52 PM »

Getting in and out of the cockpit through the overhead hatch might be much easier for two people if one steering wheel were removed.  Without the extra tanks in back, the “normal” route would be out the back door, but that’s a difficult route to exit by.  Judging by the Luke field accident account, Fred normally rode up front during takeoffs, and possibly during landings as well, so removal of one of the steering wheels may have been routine before boarding, and (possibly) before exiting.
Please, the use of the term "steering wheel" is starting to grate, let's use the correct terminology, it is a "control yoke."

gl
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #392 on: March 16, 2012, 03:24:15 AM »


Tom
The neat thing about opinions, everyone has one!  I agree with you.

There is no way in the world that I would jump out of the Electra, going 150 mph, thru a hatch over my head nor out the door.  No way, Jose.   I'd ride that baby down to, hopefully, a soft uneventful landing and get out as quickly as I possibly could, raft and kites or no raft and kites.

But then, I'm not AE.
That's the choice you would make but there are thousands of others who decided the other way when confronted with an emergency landing or ditching in similar sized aircraft.

gl
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richie conroy

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #393 on: March 16, 2012, 07:23:01 PM »

given the space between the door an rear mono wing tail, jumping out at 150 mph is suicidal

is it not ?  :o
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richie conroy

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #394 on: March 16, 2012, 07:55:20 PM »

given the fact Amelia was prob most famous person of that era, if they left parachutes an life raft an essentials etc

surely they would have been displayed in a museum or sum think, before today due to there inportance an poss being
 Amelia's down fall ?

the reporter of the sun tribune being aggresive as he was in telegrams to Amelia, to only deal storys through him,

surly he would have tracked down an provided the chutes an raft to prove there story ? either way  :-\
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richie conroy

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #395 on: March 16, 2012, 08:19:37 PM »

what i mean is, if the navy assumed they had life raft, parachutes, emergency radio etc,

they would have checked the previous places they had stopped over, to check for that info ?

we know the stuff they left at lae is on display at Purdue

so why not the chutes or other emergency aids

something to ponder over i suppose  :)
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #396 on: March 16, 2012, 08:32:38 PM »

given the space between the door an rear mono wing tail, jumping out at 150 mph is suicidal

is it not ?  :o
That's a question that comes up with new student skydivers and the answer is, no, it is not suicidal. If you look at the planes that are commonly used for skydiving you will see that the tail is even closer to the door than in the Electra. So, why don't you get hit by the tail after you jump out? Simple, because you are still going forward with the speed of the plane. If you jump out and lay on your back you see the plane apparently going strait up and if you are piloting the plane the jumpers appear to go straight down, they are not left behind to be struck by the tail. If you could be standing next to the plane as the jumper left you would see him traveling forward at the same speed as the plane and maintaining a position directly below the plane as he falls.

I remember one jump I made on which I talked the jump pilot into trying something different. After I was standing out on the wheel strut and holding onto the wing strut I had the pilot dive the plane to pick up some extra speed. He then pulled up into a steep climb using the extra speed to permit a high rate of climb. Then, while we were still going up, the pilot rolled to the left and pushed the nose down and I let go and, since the plane was still going up at the instant that I let go, I continued to go up for about 2 or 3 seconds, I could feel myself stop going up and then start going down (it was a weird feeling) and I remember looking down on the jump plane below me silhouetted against the ground and the pilot looking up at me through the open door. It was way cool but I could never talk the pilot into doing it again.

gl
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 03:14:06 AM by Gary LaPook »
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #397 on: March 17, 2012, 03:20:36 AM »



*GL prefers "Steering Yoke".   The Luke field inventory, item 64, calls it a "Control column wheel".
No, it is  a "control yoke," just pick up any book on learning to fly.

gl
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #398 on: March 17, 2012, 11:53:29 AM »


Gary
Yes, generally the "Jumper" will be below the plane since he/she has the same forward velocity as the plane when he/she exits, (now comes the "however") however the Jumper's body is less streamlined than the plane so it has a bit more drag (force in opposite direction to direction of motion) slowing it down relative to the plane.  Whether it would be enough to cause the Jumper to strike the "H" tail of an Electra?  Possibly.  Depends on the configuration of the Jumper's body.
Of course we have all seen a Jumper achieve a position where he/she can minimize that drag and actually appear to be "flying".

Of course, as a former artillery officer, you know that a body falling out of a plane, a bomb dropped from a plane, an artillery shell fired into the air travels in a trajectory that is roughly parabolic.  Thus, the Norden Bomb Sight solved the geometry (trigonometry) of that configuration and allowed nuch more accurate bombing.  That's why the development of that sighting devive was "Top Secret".
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #399 on: March 17, 2012, 12:05:12 PM »


Nits, Nits, Nits   Picky, Picky, Picky.
1.  It is shaped like a "wheel"  and is attached to a "Yoke".
2.  The function of the "wheel" is to actuate the aelirons up and/or down thus modifying the air flow at the wing tips causing the plane to bank and hence change direction ( in conjunction with the rudder).
3.  One could call that "controlling " the bank,  or "steering" the plane.

Take a Pill, and Chill.
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #400 on: March 17, 2012, 12:43:32 PM »


Jeff
None  taken, Mate.  Faith and begorrah, it's St. Paddy's Day.
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #401 on: March 17, 2012, 01:39:05 PM »


Gary
Yes, generally the "Jumper" will be below the plane since he/she has the same forward velocity as the plane when he/she exits, (now comes the "however") however the Jumper's body is less streamlined than the plane so it has a bit more drag (force in opposite direction to direction of motion) slowing it down relative to the plane.  Whether it would be enough to cause the Jumper to strike the "H" tail of an Electra?  Possibly.  Depends on the configuration of the Jumper's body.
Of course we have all seen a Jumper achieve a position where he/she can minimize that drag and actually appear to be "flying".

Of course, as a former artillery officer, you know that a body falling out of a plane, a bomb dropped from a plane, an artillery shell fired into the air travels in a trajectory that is roughly parabolic.  Thus, the Norden Bomb Sight solved the geometry (trigonometry) of that configuration and allowed nuch more accurate bombing.  That's why the development of that sighting devive was "Top Secret".
It is true that after a small amount of time the plane will pull ahead of the jumper due to the drag on the jumper not being balanced with thrust from a propeller but this does not happen until the jumper is well below the plane. I've jumped 329 times and never hit the tail, I've dropped hundreds of jumpers while flying the jump plane and I have watched thousands of jumps and nobody else ever hit the tail either. I have never even heard of a jumper hitting the tail of the plane he had exited. Do you have any examples of a jumper hitting the tail of the plane he jumped from?

The only case I know of was a real freak event. A Jumper in free fall hit the tail of a plane that just happened to be flying below him. The plane crashed but the jumper survived and the FAA got sued for not having warned the pilot of the jump plane about the other plane below him.

Here is what the NTSB determined as the probable cause.

NTSB Identification: BFO94FA015.
 The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS).  Please contact Records Management Division
Accident occurred Sunday, November 21, 1993 in NORTHAMPTON, MA
Probable Cause Approval Date: 01/11/1995
Aircraft: PIPER PA-28-161, registration: N3011F
Injuries: 4 Fatal.
A PIPER PA-28, N3011F, WAS IN VFR CRUISE FLIGHT HEADING EASTBOUND AT ABOUT 5700' MSL, AS A CESSNA 210 (PARACHUTE JUMP PLANE) HAD JUST COMPLETED A CLEARING TURN TO A WESTBOUND HEADING, INTO THE SUN, AT 7300' MSL. A PARACHUTIST JUMPED FROM THE JUMP PLANE & STRUCK THE VERTICAL STABILIZER OF THE PA-28 AFTER A FEW SECONDS OF FREE FALL.  CONTROL OF THE PA-28 WAS LOST, & IT CRASHED IN AN UNCONTROLLED DESCENT.  THE JUMP PLANE WAS IN RADAR & RADIO COMMUNICATION WITH AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL (ATC) IN ORDER TO RECEIVE TRAFFIC ADVISORIES PER THE FAA ATC CONTROLLER'S HANDBOOK.  THE PA-28 WAS RECORDED ON RADAR.  NO ADVISORIES WERE ISSUED TO THE JUMP PLANE AFTER THE PILOT CALLED '1 MINUTE PRIOR TO JUMP.'  TESTS SHOWED THAT ONE TRANSCEIVER IN THE PA-28 WAS TUNED TO 120.30 MHZ; A WARNING FOR PARACHUTE JUMPING WAS GIVEN OVER THIS FREQUENCY.  A 1/8' PARACHUTE SYMBOL (COLORED BLUE) WAS DEPICTED ON THE SECTIONAL CHART AND WAS SUPERIMPOSED OVER A RIVER (ALSO COLORED BLUE). THE CONTROLLER WAS RECEIVING ON-THE-JOB TRAINING FROM A FULL PERFORMANCE CONTROLLER.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
FAILURE OF THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL (ATC) FACILITY TO IDENTIFY AND PROVIDE THE REQUIRED TRAFFIC INFORMATION TO THE JUMP AIRCRAFT BEFORE RELEASE OF THE JUMPER(S).  A FACTOR RELATED TO THE ACCIDENT WAS: INADEQUATE VISUAL LOOKOUT BY THE PILOT OF THE JUMP AIRCRAFT.

Here is a link to the NTSB report, and to the probable cause determination.

gl
« Last Edit: March 17, 2012, 07:02:52 PM by Gary LaPook »
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Heath Smith

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #402 on: March 17, 2012, 02:17:50 PM »

Quote
Do you have any examples of a jumper hitting the tail of the plane he jumped from?

I was poking around on Youtube today and saw some chutes getting caught on the tail. People were getting sloppy at the door and almost lost their life. Interesting to watch.
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #403 on: March 17, 2012, 02:53:35 PM »

Link?
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Heath Smith

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