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Author Topic: PIC, packing and who's in charge of the planning? Was Dr. Berry's aboard?  (Read 6421 times)

richie conroy

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could be a perfume bottle why would'nt u wanna smell nice for waiting public ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Clear-Glass-Perfume-Bottle-w-Gold-Atomiser-Sprayer-/130517821120?pt=UK_Collectables_Bottle_Pots_ET&hash=item1e6377e6c0#ht_500wt_969

1 thing i find intresting is that in the last flight story amelia says she has packed bare essientals for flight,

we have knife, sextant, ointment cream, poss perfume bottle, alchol bottle, it's somethink to look into as 1 thing i have noticed recently is that all research is based on what amelia may have i.e parachutes water machine etc

what decisions did noonan make, or have a say on, an did he have the authority on what goes on or happens  ?
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Chris Johnson

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My understanding is that FN was the hired hand who was clutching at the coat tails of AE in the hope of launching his own career (but hey I could be wrong?)
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richie conroy

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My understanding is that FN was the hired hand who was clutching at the coat tails of AE in the hope of launching his own career (but hey I could be wrong?)

chris givin the situation they were in them last few hours who is more likely to be or take control ?
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Harry Howe, Jr.

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Richie
In non-student situations, the person in the left seat is the PIC (Pilot In Control) and has the last say about a flight.  Unless he/she formally turns control over to the co-pilot.

Thus the situation when they, AE/FN, were arriving at the African coast and FN said go left and AE went right and they landed somewhere other than where they had planned.  She was the PIC.
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Gary LaPook

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Richie
In non-student situations, the person in the left seat is the PIC (Pilot In Control) and has the last say about a flight.  Unless he/she formally turns control over to the co-pilot.


It's not that simple. The PIC (Pilot In Command) can be sitting in any seat, including the potty seat in the back of the plane. When there is more than one pilot in a plane (Noonan was a licensed pilot) and there is an accident or an enforcement action brought by the FAA for violation of a regulation, the question of who was PIC at the time always becomes an issue. In airline and military operations the PIC is designated in writing prior to takeoff and that paper is left behind. The person designated as PIC is still PIC even sitting on the potty or taking a nap in back. The PIC doesn't even need to be near the flight controls. Just letting the co-pilot manipulate the controls does not relieve the PIC from being PIC.

Don't confuse who is PIC with an entirely different question of who may log time as pilot in command which only requires being "the sole manipulator of the controls" so the co-pilot can log time in his logbook in the "PIC" column if he is manipulating the controls even though he is not the PIC.

It gets more complicated in informal flying situations and the person who is PIC may actually change during different segments of the flight. If there is a violation of regulations followed by an enforcement action by the FAA the two pilots usually argue that it was the other guy who was acting as pilot in command during that segment of the flight. There have been cases where three pilots were in the plane and the guy in the back seat, not near the controls, happened to also be a flight instructor. Even though it was not an instructional flight and the instructor was not giving instruction, the flight instructor has been found to be the PIC and responsible for the crash or regulation violation because the guys in front, manipulating the controls, testified that they would have asked the instructor if they had a question and would have done what he advised. This happened because those guys identified the guy in back as the person that they considered the authority for flight operations based on his superior experience and knowledge. 

It is a different issue as to who was the pilot manipulating the controls at the time of the crash and this is often resolved by determining which body has the broken thumbs which resulted from holding the control yoke at the time of the impact.

Read Federal Aviation Regulation 91.3 (which I memorized 40 years ago), "The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft." Earhart was obviously the person with "final authority" as to the operation of the flight so was the PIC. But, if she if she voluntarily relinquished that authority to Noonan for a particular segment or if she became incapable of exercising that authority then, by default, Noonan would become the PIC.

gl
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 03:14:40 AM by Gary LaPook »
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Chris Johnson

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My understanding is that FN was the hired hand who was clutching at the coat tails of AE in the hope of launching his own career (but hey I could be wrong?)

chris givin the situation they were in them last few hours who is more likely to be or take control ?

Richie.

I was specificaly replying to this that you posted;

Quote
what decisions did noonan make, or have a say on, an did he have the authority on what goes on or happens  ?

I took it to mean the planning stages of the trip and NOT the actual flight or taking over control of the plane.
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richie conroy

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My understanding is that FN was the hired hand who was clutching at the coat tails of AE in the hope of launching his own career (but hey I could be wrong?)

chris givin the situation they were in them last few hours who is more likely to be or take control ?

Richie.

I was specificaly replying to this that you posted;

Quote
what decisions did noonan make, or have a say on, an did he have the authority on what goes on or happens  ?

I took it to mean the planning stages of the trip and NOT the actual flight or taking over control of the plane.

i actually meant control of plane  :)

what i meant was Amelia might have wanted to continue on the flight path in the hope they found howland, an Fred might of insisted on the 337 157 L.O.P to give them more chance of finding an island

so in the event of a dispute, givin it was life or death decison makeing, would Fred have tryed  to take control of plane 

did he take control of plane an thats why he got injured ?

just thinking aloud  :)
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