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Author Topic: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland  (Read 420465 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #180 on: February 19, 2012, 10:32:45 AM »

Presumably you mean if a pistol was found in a foreign country where she landed.

Yes.  There were many restrictions placed by foreign governments - what airports she could use, fumigation of the airplane, health certificates, no firearms, etc.
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #181 on: February 19, 2012, 01:13:42 PM »

Here is a picture of a Mark III Signal pistol as listed in the Luke Field inventory. I think it's the same type anyway. The inventory listed no serial nos. and as a 1 inch. The one in the picture is a 10 gage made around the turn of the century (with no serial nos) according to the E-Bay ad.
Woody (former 3316R)
"the watcher"
 
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #182 on: February 19, 2012, 02:22:19 PM »

Very pistol, bore is about 1.5 inches. The cartridges are similar to shotgun shells, but instead of shot they may contain various color flares including parachute flares. This will fire a flare several hundred feet into the air, IIRC, one of the flares would reach 1200 feet.
Randy

Gary's sorting out of the 'pistol' delimma seems more important now - it would be helpful to find out how that change in the statement that he notes above did occur.

If it WAS a 'Very' pistol that AE left behind, it was a bad choice.
Well, somebody but the word "Very" in brackets and changed the original meaning from "automatic pistol" to "Very pistol." As to recollections many years later, I was given a pistol in 1965, 47 years ago, and I still remember exactly what kind of pistol it was, what kind of sights it had and the what the grips looked like and I know that it was not a Very Pistol. I think Balfour (unless he was already institutionalized with dementia when he wrote those two letters) wouldn't have had any trouble remembering such things accurately.

gl
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #183 on: February 19, 2012, 02:25:49 PM »

Presumably you mean if a pistol was found in a foreign country where she landed.

Yes.  There were many restrictions placed by foreign governments - what airports she could use, fumigation of the airplane, health certificates, no firearms, etc.
Like landing at St. Louis? Hmmm... that didn't seem to bother her much.

gl
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #184 on: February 19, 2012, 02:39:01 PM »

Gary, the point of my post was to clarify the the restriction on a hand gun would be a restriction by a foreign country. Ric's response clarified and, I believe, confirmed it. She wouldn't need permits for landing on US territory. Her flight was sanctioned at the highest levels of the US government. Therefore why would she need to offload her pistol in Lae other than for weight. She had already landed at all the foreign airports of her trip already. If she still has the pistol then she has no need to get rid of it now for compliance with the permits. Her next three, and last stops, are all US controlled airfields. Howland, Hawaii, and California.

What in the heck does landing in St. Louis have to do with this?
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #185 on: February 19, 2012, 03:45:02 PM »

Irv, I think Mr. LaPook was trying to be funny, making a backhand reference to Amelia and Fred landing in Saint-Louis, Senegal, Africa, instead of Dakar, Senegal, Africa.

But, as I have said before, I fail to see what his point is in bringing that into the argument. But then, I'm just a humble paper pusher.

LTM,

Monty Fowler
TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #186 on: February 19, 2012, 04:55:19 PM »

Thanks Monty

While I do appreciate a good joke or a bit of humor I have become very skeptical of Mr. Lapook of late.  Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive however he picks his words carefully and for a reason. He does not believe in the TIGHAR hypothesis and I am therefore always reading between his lines. I'm sure there is motive or intent to mislead in some of his posts. Not all.   Read some of his recent posts. He states non fact as fact.

"Humble" paper pusher??  Without paper the world would end.  "Noble" is a better word.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #187 on: February 19, 2012, 05:06:23 PM »

Very pistol, bore is about 1.5 inches. The cartridges are similar to shotgun shells, but instead of shot they may contain various color flares including parachute flares. This will fire a flare several hundred feet into the air, IIRC, one of the flares would reach 1200 feet.
Randy

Gary's sorting out of the 'pistol' delimma seems more important now - it would be helpful to find out how that change in the statement that he notes above did occur.

If it WAS a 'Very' pistol that AE left behind, it was a bad choice.
Well, somebody but the word "Very" in brackets and changed the original meaning from "automatic pistol" to "Very pistol." As to recollections many years later, I was given a pistol in 1965, 47 years ago, and I still remember exactly what kind of pistol it was, what kind of sights it had and the what the grips looked like and I know that it was not a Very Pistol. I think Balfour (unless he was already institutionalized with dementia when he wrote those two letters) wouldn't have had any trouble remembering such things accurately.

I'm sure your memory is flawless  ;D , but once you start making judgements about whose memories are accurate and whose aren't you're being arbitrarily selective in what evidence you accept and what you reject.  How can you possibly know that Harry Balfour's memory is better than - say - Tom Devine's, who saw the Marines burn Earhart's Electra at Aslito Airfield on Saipan in 1944?   Anecdotal recollections, whether they contradict or support - especially if they support - your hypothesis are suspect unless corroborated by hard evidence - datable photos, contemporaneous written documentation, identifiable artifacts.  No exceptions.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #188 on: February 19, 2012, 05:29:31 PM »

Irv, I think Mr. LaPook was trying to be funny, making a backhand reference to Amelia and Fred landing in Saint-Louis, Senegal, Africa, instead of Dakar, Senegal, Africa.

I think Gary was trying to counter my assertion that Earhart was subject to many restrictions imposed by foreign governments including what airports she could land at. She was supposed to land at Dakar but she landed at St. Louis instead. Hence Gary's comment, "Like landing at St. Louis? Hmmm... that didn't seem to bother her much."

My response is that it bothered her enough that she made up the cock-and-bull story about not listening to Noonan's instruction to turn right upon reaching the African coast.

As I wrote in Finding Amelia (page 43):
"Failing to land there[Dakar], if seen as willful disregard of the approved itinerary, might result in the airplane and crew being impounded and fined. If missing Dakar was represented as a navigational mistake, however, especially one for which the female pilot took the blame for not listening to her male navigator, the French authorities might be less likely to hold it against her. Whatever Earhart’s motivation, the American public and the French authorities accepted her version of events, and the next day the flight repositioned to Dakar without incident.
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #189 on: February 19, 2012, 06:00:30 PM »

Thanks Ric

And that's why I said what does this have to do with St. Louis?  AE was celebrity. Her fame and this new world trip was news. It was likely the inspections were cursory and if she didn't land at a given airport then she probably upset the officials because they were expecting to meet a celebrity.  However I have explained the point I was trying to make about the "when" she reportedly handed over her pistol. If she dumped her survival gear at Lae then why there?  She was afraid of jungle.  Could this mean she felt comfortable over the upcoming stretches over water?  Enough so to dump her survival gear?  What is a facility book?  Sounds official so why leave that and "other" papers at Lae?  I thought the weight of this survival gear wasn't enough to make a difference in fuel consumption?  It's just another one of those puzzles we can only guess at.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Dan Swift

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #190 on: February 20, 2012, 08:19:41 AM »

And there could have been another disagreement of which way to turn when they didn't hit Howland head on! 
Navigation wasn't a perfect science then...by any means. 
TIGHAR Member #4154
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #191 on: February 20, 2012, 11:24:19 AM »

Good point Dan. With AE in the pilots seat and knowing her ego would she overrule FN if she thought she was right?  Interesting.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #192 on: February 20, 2012, 01:18:16 PM »

Gary, the point of my post was to clarify the the restriction on a hand gun would be a restriction by a foreign country. Ric's response clarified and, I believe, confirmed it. She wouldn't need permits for landing on US territory. Her flight was sanctioned at the highest levels of the US government. Therefore why would she need to offload her pistol in Lae other than for weight. She had already landed at all the foreign airports of her trip already. If she still has the pistol then she has no need to get rid of it now for compliance with the permits. Her next three, and last stops, are all US controlled airfields. Howland, Hawaii, and California.

What in the heck does landing in St. Louis have to do with this?
Maybe it was just a present to him  because of all the help Balfour had given her. She obviously thought highly of him since she asked him to come on the flight. And she didn't see any risk of landing in a jungle or ending up in some dangerous foreign town after Lae for the rest of the flight so didn't need the pistol for protection anymore.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 06:27:23 PM by Gary LaPook »
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #193 on: February 20, 2012, 01:53:09 PM »

Geez. Maybe she gave it him because the fourth of July was coming up and she heard they had no fireworks.  I can make anything up if you want me to.

What is a facility book?  It sounds official. She could autograph that and he would have a great souvenir.  Less dangerous. More valuable.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Did Earhart carry parachutes on the flight to Howland
« Reply #194 on: February 20, 2012, 02:22:42 PM »

Actually if you use the " Most Likely" approach then the cat/rat idea is best. :-)
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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