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Author Topic: Seven Site  (Read 181513 times)

Bob Lanz

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #150 on: November 27, 2012, 03:26:22 PM »

And what appears to be a giant frog to the right as you look at it.

No way with that begger lurking would i sleep there, I'd take a risk with the crabs :)

Maybe these old eyes aren't so bad after all Chris.  I can see the frog too.  ;D
Doc
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Bob Lanz

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #151 on: November 27, 2012, 03:31:31 PM »

I have found an article on a cadaver dog, that would be a valued member of the Niku 8 expedition. This lab finds 250 year old bones, nearly 2 meters deep. With 100% accuracy..     http://www.news.com.au/national/this-dog-has-a-nose-for-archeology/story-fndo4ckr-1226463394595

Cadaver dogs can definitely find old bones - no doubt about that - but we'd need a team of dogs and handlers and accommodating their special needs would have a major impact on the cost and capabilities expedition.  Niku is a harsh environment for a dog and cadaver dogs are valuable.  What do you do if a dog gets hurt of sick?  Do you abort the expedition to get the dog to a vet or do you bring along a veterinarian and further reduce your ground team? The larger issue is the question of whether it's reasonable to think that there are bones to find after all this time and, if there are, what are the chances that they would do us any good?  DNA experts are dubious that bones lying on the surface for 75 years in that environment would have recoverable DNA.  We'd be gambling that the dogs cold find bones that somehow had gotten buried.  That's quite a gamble.  We're considering all of these factors in deciding whether cadaver dogs should be part of Niku VIII.

Ric, I think you pretty much summed up why you shouldn't take Cadaver dogs down there.  I doubt that you could find a dog handler worth his salt willing to risk his animal that way.
Doc
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #152 on: November 27, 2012, 04:51:35 PM »

Ric, I think you pretty much summed up why you shouldn't take Cadaver dogs down there.  I doubt that you could find a dog handler worth his salt willing to risk his animal that way.

Actually there's a group with excellent credentials who are eager to go - for a price.  We just need to look at the prospect carefully.
Something that has occurred to me is that a lot of dogs love to go swimming, especially in a hot climate.  That would be an extraordinarily bad idea at Niku.   
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Dan Kelly

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #153 on: November 28, 2012, 04:54:48 AM »


Actually there's a group with excellent credentials who are eager to go - for a price.  We just need to look at the prospect carefully.
Something that has occurred to me is that a lot of dogs love to go swimming, especially in a hot climate.  That would be an extraordinarily bad idea at Niku.

I'm wondering what the dog would do if a coconut crab grabbed its nose.  ;D
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #154 on: November 28, 2012, 06:43:25 AM »

probably get real irritated!!!!! ;D
How about a dog in a fight with a black tip shark? Something for Discovery to film
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matt john barth

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #155 on: January 02, 2013, 10:05:33 AM »

I've been following Tighar since I was in my preteens, now I am 38. My mom got me interested in AE a long time ago. My mom was a big fan. The way she told the story to me when I was a kid sent chills up my spine. What is really strange is that feeling only happens to me once in a while. The next time I got that feeling was when I saw the IN Search Of program with Lenard Nemoy and the episode I saw was the AE one. So after that never thought about it to much. Then sometime in 1988 or 1989 I saw some special about Tighar on T.V. I can't remember where I saw the program. I have looked for it because I would like to see it again because when I was watching that program I got the same chill up my spine. Since I saw that I always knew something would come from Tighar's investigations. At this time in my life I didn't know of the post lost radio messages, and when I read the Dana Randolph and Betty klenck stories I got the special chill up my spine feeling. There are only a few places I've been to in my life when I have experieced this feeling. So to get to the point, I think you all (Tighar) exhaust yourselves on your expeditions. Trying to solve a 75 year old mystery in a two week time span I think damages your chances at finding the special smoking gun you are looking for, and what I mean is that I think you are trying to hard sometimes, and in some situations. I'm no expert that's for sure I am just trying to think outside the box for you guys because I believe in what you are doing.

 

In my life I have noticed that when I am trying to hard I jinx myself more without even knowing it. Where I think this is true is the investigations on the island itself. I keep seeing evidence slip past you. I think you need to think like Mother Nature to solve this one or try to let Mother Nature lead you to the evidence. O.k so this is how I think this could be accomplished and that would be put 3 or 4 people on the island at a time for a maybe a month, then when that month is over stage 3 more and when these people are brought ashore set them free and see where they end up. Will they end up at the Seven Site? Who knows but this way you try to see what influenced AE and FN to go to the seven site. By doing this you would also accomplish something else, when storms come in and go out you would have the ability to be the first ones there, because that seems to be what is happening over the years (ie) the biologist with the students or whatever found the small wheel on the beach and then left it there because they didn't want to disturb Tighar's investigation which is thoughtfull but why didn't they just pull it up past the water line I'll never understand. These types of things keep you/us from finding a smoking gun. I know it's there and you do to. I know this because whenever I see a picture of Niku I get the strange feeling up my spine. That feeling doesn't lie to me but don't really believe in the supernatural. I really just believe in balance and trying to maintain it.

 

What were AE's feelings for FN. I know she and GP had some sort of open marriage. Why would she not leave a message behind like AE was here? All of us have done that at one time or another. Is it a coincidence that Fred was a good looking man and just happened to be with a celebrity flying around the world. My point is why no message left behind? Possibly Fred died soon and AE felt responsible and when she found no one was coming for her she found it better that the world didn't know the whole story. Maybe she wanted to be a martyr. Could she have been in love with FN and when he was gone what else did she have to live for? I'll say that there is no one out there that could convice me that AE and GP were really in love. What are other peoples thoughts on this, especially the AE and GP love thing. Why didn't GP as rich as he was go to some of the islands himself, I know I would have. Ask yourself these questions and respond.

 

What about that D.W. Hoodless for some reason I get the feeling he is a liar and a cheat. He doesn't look trustworthy to me. The bones didn't just disappear. As all of you know there was talk from the PISS group that they didn't want the U.S to get involved with their PISS project. I can't remember where I read that but it might have been on this site or in the book Amelia Earhart's shoes. Great book by the way. So because of that being said gives me uneasy feelings about where the bones are and who is holding them. Someone has them because they think they may be worth something, I know it's a stretch but I'm sensing there is a big lie behind those bones. Has anyone ever tried to talk to the Brit's main government about this, I'm sure someone from Tighar has, because they are so thorough. Would be nice to know what the Brits have to say about those bones. Has anyone ever traced D.W. Hoodless's offspring? Do they give the same dishonest dimenor that D.W. Hoodless presents? I don't know why but when I see a picture of Hoodless I get bad feelings. By the way I'll quit my job for the chance to camp on Niku for a spell. One last question, how does one get permision to visit Niku?

Matthew J. Barth
 
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #156 on: January 02, 2013, 01:21:20 PM »

Welcome, Matt.

I don't have time to deal with all of your questions, but I would like to address these two immediately.

What about that D.W. Hoodless for some reason I get the feeling he is a liar and a cheat. He doesn't look trustworthy to me. The bones didn't just disappear. As all of you know there was talk from the PISS group that they didn't want the U.S to get involved with their PISS project.

Hoodless was a great man, well and deservedly loved by those whom he served.

He was largely self-educated in medicine.  He went to Fiji originally as a tutor in mathematics, if I remember correctly, but saw that the real need was to improve health care.  I have the greatest admiration for his work, though he may have been something of a thorn in the side of his superiors.  Cf. Misi Utu, a short read, for all the details.

There isn't a hint of him lying about anything, let alone the bones.

Quote
As all of you know there was talk from the PISS group that they didn't want the U.S to get involved with their PISS project.

I don't "know" that at all.  The only possible text that might lead to that strange view would be the instruction to Gallagher to keep his Earhart theory quiet, so as not to raise unfounded hopes.  That was not to keep the U.S. out of PISS, per se, but to keep from looking stupid on the world stage by appearing to make claims that could not be substantiated.
LTM,

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matt john barth

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #157 on: January 03, 2013, 04:40:35 PM »

I think that would be an interesting way to go about it too. Maybe even using both methods would come up with something.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #158 on: January 03, 2013, 04:54:26 PM »

Well-meaning people have often suggested that we put a team on the island for an extended period.  Not so well-meaning people have suggested that I be put on the island for an even more extended period.

The truth is that it would irresponsible to leave anyone on Nikumaroro for more than a few days without a ship standing by offshore.  The people who once lived there had infrastructure and support that is no longer functional.  It's too easy to get hurt in ways that require immediate evacuation and anything a faux-castaway did would be meaningless.
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Bob Lanz

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #159 on: January 03, 2013, 06:12:09 PM »

Not so well-meaning people have suggested that I be put on the island for an even more extended period.

Ah Ric, where is your adventurous Tom Hanks spirit?  Just don't forget your soccer ball and a new pocket watch.  ;)
Doc
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matt john barth

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #160 on: January 09, 2013, 02:50:48 PM »

I'll have to respectfully disagree, although I do respect your appreciation for life. I live near the Rocky Mountains and have lived here a long time. Every year in the summer people go mountain climbing in flip flops and t-shirts and a storm come thru and they end up dead or close to it. I feel and this is me if you are willing to sign up and are fully aware of the risks then thats that. Like bungee jumping, is it your fault that people have died from bungee jumping or white water rafting down the colorado river? I do appreciate your response though. I think you and your people are totally correct with your hypothisis but I think evidence gets missed especially the smoking gun stuff because of storm surges and natural wonders that things get missed because no one is there. I know I read somewhere where someone was going to try this for some reason on some other island but I think it can't be any old island though. For what it  is worth this is what I think. I'll have you know I'm no important person in society though. I know I would do it. I would go for free and camp, I wouldn't go alone thats for sure.

By the way I mentioned above about the WHPC and how they wanted to keep the bones story secret. I got some push back from Mr. Moleski about Dr. Hoodless being a shady character, he disagreed and he has right to, but tell me this if Dr. Hoodless was so great he was still part of the WHPC or in bed with them right? Well keeping the bones secret from the U.S seved what purpose to do more research on the bones, that's what they said. You said this many times yourself how may castaways were in the equatorial region of the pacific ocean in 1940 with a sextant box and a bottle of Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream? I mean Gallager had it right, he was a great man because he wrote I think we should let the Americans know about this and the WHPC said no not right now that would be bad because we don't want to give them false hopes, oh my they cared so much for our feelings did they. A possible lead to what happened to AE would be a bad thing, even if it turned out to be wrong. I don't buy it at all. In fact I've read Tom King's book and I think Mr. Moleski should as well, I took the time to go back through it half way and have found mention of this one pages 72-73, 212-213, and 216-217 at this point I found plenty of references to this and I do know that at some point in the book it specifically mentions the WHPC not wanting the Americans involved with thier P.I.S.S project. I will find that page but for now check these pages out. I know I am talking to two people through one post as I am still figuring out how to navigate the website. Thanks for reading, you people are the only ones I have to talk about this stuff with other people just think I'm crazy for caring

Best Wishes,
Matt Barth
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matt john barth

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #161 on: January 09, 2013, 03:30:47 PM »

Not so well-meaning people have suggested that I be put on the island for an even more extended period.

Ah Ric, where is your adventurous Tom Hanks spirit?  Just don't forget your soccer ball and a new pocket watch.  ;)
That's what I say when all come to the Rockies for a good time in the summer, isolation Tincup Pass and Princeton peak. Every summer someone falls or gets lost, stuck by lightning, attacked by bears from feeding them, there are many other areas around the world that are isolated no cell phone service in most places in the moutains as well. This is true not everyone is fit for such things but most people aren't retarded either.
Matthew J. Barth
 
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matt john barth

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #162 on: January 09, 2013, 03:42:17 PM »

Aside from the obvious challenges, one big problem with this gut-yearning to put guinea pigs on the island at all is exactly what Ric has said -

Quote
...anything a faux-castaway did would be meaningless...

How others would react today has absolutely nothing reliable to tell us as to why or how a castaway would have behaved as they might have, or where they might have gone in 1937.  Think 'variables' - LOTS of them, most unforeseeable and now unknowable.  I am well familiar with the visceral tug of such notions, but the answers cannot be extrapolated that way. 

IMHO such an exercise would rank right next to resorting to the psychic sirens who 'just know' all about these things (but who always seem to lack the ability to take one anywhere meaningful in such searches): it would amount to no more than 'channeling' a long-dead personality.  Rots of ruck.

As to the practical - there's nothing like simply tearing the flesh on coral and being consumed by a nasty infection before your keepers return - or any number of other potential hazards.  Ah - just wear armored waders... and introduce another variable to 'boot'... 

A few days isolated on Niku is not my idea of camping at the beach by all accounts I've been able to follow, and the isolation of the place deserves far more than casual consideration.  I doubt many modern folks, with our easy communications and transportation, have really contemplated just how remote such an island really is or what that means.  At the very least it runs the price way up in terms of direct costs and real risk - all for the prospect of yielding nothing.

Now a well-founded and funded professional archeological survey might be another matter...
Who's to say taking a psychic would be a bad idea. One that the FBI uses, that might have some credibility. I'll say I don't see to much from the new underwater search. That might have been a waste of time since we are on the subject of time and how to use it. We are not any closer to the smoking gun because of Niku 7 by the time someone goes back in 2014 everything could be in different places. Now I'll agree maybe that is the landing gear down there but if someone really thought it was I think they wouldn't wait till 2014 to get it. AE and Hoffa are the two most famous missing persons cases. That landing gear could be a gold mine, so lets let someone else get credit for getting it that makes sense.
Matthew J. Barth
 
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #163 on: January 09, 2013, 09:34:38 PM »

I got some push back from Mr. Moleski about Dr. Hoodless being a shady character, he disagreed and he has right to, but tell me this if Dr. Hoodless was so great he was still part of the WHPC or in bed with them right? Well keeping the bones secret from the U.S served what purpose to do more research on the bones, that's what they said.

No, that is not what they said.

You can read the entire contents of the file for yourself.

The phrase in blue is a link.

If you click on the link, it will take you to the "Bones file."

On the very first screen, you should see what they said.

You are welcome to your personal opinions; you are not free to misrepresent the data.
LTM,

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Don Dollinger

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Re: Seven Site
« Reply #164 on: February 01, 2013, 01:48:55 PM »

Quote
I mean Gallager had it right, he was a great man because he wrote I think we should let the Americans know about this and the WHPC said no not right now that would be bad because we don't want to give them false hopes

Gallagher thought he could've "possibly" found our intrepid Aviatrix and thought the Americans should be told.  But cooler heads prevailed and they analyzed the bones first.

After the analysis, what would be the point of telling the Americans?  Their expert determined that it was a 5'6", 45-55 year old male, either a stocky European, half caste, or mixed European.  This definately did not fit the description of either Amelia nor Fred.  They had no reason not to trust the analysis of their expert and because he was using the standard tables of the day the Americans should have come up with a pretty similiar analysis if they were to examine the bones.  IMHO I would think Americans would not have wanted a report on all the unidentified bodies found throughout the area if they bore none of the characteristics of Amelia or Fred.

LTM,

Don
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